What's the bi-annual flight review all about?

When immigration is outlawed, only outlaws will immigrate.

When marriage is outlawed, only outlaws will have inlaws.

Ti's bienial, and it's every two years.

It is spelled "biennial" and has been replaced with the phrase "flight
review".

Jim

I have a particular way I like to do it. Then again, I lay awake at night
wondering whether anal-retentive is hyphenated or not.

I tell the pilot to pretend he and his significant other and me and my wife
want to go with him to a restaurant on a field about 50 miles away and to
plan the flight accordingly.

If, by the time we get to the airplane, (s)he hasn't asked me how much my
wife weighs, then I know (s)he hasn't done a weight and balance. If I ask
him/her what the weather is like at the target airport and (s)he mutters
vague generalities, then I know (s)he hasn't checked FSS or DUATs weather.
If (s)he doesn't use a checklist during the preflight or during pre-engine
start, then I stop right then and there and tell the pilot that perhaps they
might like to reschedule the flight for another day as I'm not comfortable
flying with them. "No charge, and here is what I observed that makes me
uncomfy...no w/b, no wtx, no checklist and maybe next week we can do it
again."

Jim

--
"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought
without accepting it."
--Aristotle


What's the bi-annual flight review all about?

If, by the time we get to the airplane, (s)he hasn't asked me how much
my wife weighs, then I know (s)he hasn't done a weight and balance.

Woah right there big feller. That's not a valid conclusion on your part.
Having done flight manifests for crew changes in the past I can estimate
your
weight visually. I also know my aircraft well enough to know how much
weight
can go where and what the margins are.

How in the hell can you estimate the weight for somebody you've never seen
or are ever likely to see? For all you know she is Grizelda the wrestler
and carries around a concrete purse. Remember I said that they were to
PRETEND that four people were going on the trip.


If
I ask him/her what the weather is like at the target airport and (s)he
mutters vague generalities, then I know (s)he hasn't checked FSS or
DUATs weather.

Maybe this is a valid conclusion. You'd like to hear a precise weather
description but many folks don't think that way. They may think
acceptable/marginal/bad for weather descriptions.

I can accept those three versions IF they can tell me on what they based
their classification. A mumbled "It's OK" doesn't cut it.



If (s)he doesn't use a checklist during the preflight or
during pre-engine start, then I stop right then and there and tell the
pilot that perhaps they might like to reschedule the flight for another
day as I'm not comfortable flying with them.

A checklist is not a dolist. Review the checklist as the final part of the
activity on familiar aircraft. I generally don't look at the checklist on
pre-glight or engine start. I will review each item from the top after
run-up
is complete.

YOu and I were taught by different people. A checklist is just that ... a
step by step list of todos so that you don't forget something. It is very
easy for the mind to go through a "familiar list" and be so rote that you
really DID think you were on both mags when you were only on one.

Jim

"Dallas" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 14 Apr 2009 19:30:00 GMT, wrote:

It isn't a "test" as there is no failing

Not getting the sign off means you failed.

But, I like the idea that it's a test. My ex-fighter pilot brother in law
was under the impression that he was legal to fly if he got his medical.
I
added that he needed the flight review, then he was legal.

The last time he flew they hadn't adopted Class B airspace yet. I would
hope that the instructor would really test this guy before he turned him
loose to fly again.

--
Dallas

Well.. that means he has not flown in over 20 years?
His "FR" will be more than just the standard 1hr of ground and 1hr of air
time. It should be a very through review of the CFRs, the airspace changes,
the new requirements since 9/11, new certificate with proper address issued
from FAA (paper ones are not longer worthy after March 2010). Plus all the
flight maneuvers expected to fly at his certificate level, private or
commercial. A CFI-A can do all that, he does not need to see the Examiner
again.

Some people pick it back up quick, some don't, and based on age (mental
faculties), some maybe shouldn't. We run into that with older pilots wanting
to fly gliders because they no longer maintain a medical. I'd expect at
least 5-10 hours or more, depending on his capabilities and knowledge
absorption rate.

Same with Sport Pilot, and he does not need a medical, but he does need a
Flight Review.

BT

"Private" wrote in message
...

"RST Engineering" wrote in message
m...
snip
YOu and I were taught by different people. A checklist is just that ...
a step by step list of todos so that you don't forget something. It is
very easy for the mind to go through a "familiar list" and be so rote
that you really DID think you were on both mags when you were only on
one.

Jim

I agree with Jim on this point, IMHO consistent use of WRITTEN check (or
to-do) lists is evidence of personal discipline and application of
good/accepted/required procedure, which can be a good indicator of
training and safety attitude. Here in Canada, failure to use a written
checklist for run-up and pre-takeoff items will result in failure of most
flight tests.

The use of written checklists is beginning to be required in many other
non-aviation mission critical activities.
http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2...a_fact_gawande
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servl...andHealth/home
http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/full/NEJMsa0810119

Happy landings,



please imagie a rude noise!

On Apr 15, 6:15*pm, "RST Engineering" wrote:


YOu and I were taught by different people. *A checklist is just that .... a
step by step list of todos so that you don't forget something. *It is very
easy for the mind to go through a "familiar list" and be so rote that you
really DID think you were on both mags when you were only on one.

Jim

The quickest thing that disqualified an applicant on any check flight
I ever gave was the non-use or improper use of a checklist.
Dudley Henriques

"RST Engineering" wrote in message
m...
snip
YOu and I were taught by different people. A checklist is just that ... a
step by step list of todos so that you don't forget something. It is very
easy for the mind to go through a "familiar list" and be so rote that you
really DID think you were on both mags when you were only on one.

Jim

I agree with Jim on this point, IMHO consistent use of WRITTEN check (or
to-do) lists is evidence of personal discipline and application of
good/accepted/required procedure, which can be a good indicator of training
and safety attitude. Here in Canada, failure to use a written checklist for
run-up and pre-takeoff items will result in failure of most flight tests.

The use of written checklists is beginning to be required in many other
non-aviation mission critical activities.
http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2...a_fact_gawande
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servl...andHealth/home
http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/full/NEJMsa0810119

Happy landings,

Dudley Henriques wrote:
On Apr 15, 6:15 pm, "RST Engineering" wrote:

YOu and I were taught by different people. A checklist is just that ... a
step by step list of todos so that you don't forget something. It is very
easy for the mind to go through a "familiar list" and be so rote that you
really DID think you were on both mags when you were only on one.

Jim

The quickest thing that disqualified an applicant on any check flight
I ever gave was the non-use or improper use of a checklist.
Dudley Henriques

An admittedly small sample, but I've actually never seen a professional
pilot do a walkaround on an airplane with a checklist in hand. Not even
when I'm watching the A320 FO do a walkaround. I'm sure it happens
though. I've only seen students and pilots on a checkride do that. My
instructor told me to "have the checklist in your hand but you don't
really need to look at it" -- for the preflight.

So -- Dudley and others. Let's be clear here as I am curious. Which
phases of flight do you use the checklist for?

_ preflight planning
_ drive out to the airport
_ preflight examination
_ getting in and getting fastened
_ engine start and post-start
_ pre-taxi
_ runup
_ pre-takeoff
_ climbout
_ approaching a fix on an IFR flight plan
_ cruise (log fuel, check nav, switch tanks)
_ pre-approach ("WIRE")
_ approach
_ pre-landing / landing "GUMPS"
_ clear of runway
_ pre-taxi
_ shutdown ("fuel not on both, master off")
_ post-shutdown ("tie down, pick up your x, y, and z)
_ walk-away ("hobbs, lock gate")

I have a friend that would honestly "x" everything in each column.

I consider myself a pretty safe pilot. Answers for me below. I do a
lot of GUMPS, WIRE, and I use the instrument panel placards (pre-landing
check, etc), in particular, but I am not thinking it is "checklist
usage" unless you have the thing in your hand...

Would I pass your flight test?

_ preflight planning
_ drive out to the airport
_ preflight examination
_x getting in and getting fastened
x_ engine start and post-start
_ pre-taxi
_x runup
_ pre-takeoff
_ climbout
_ approaching a fix on an IFR flight plan
_ pre-approach ("WIRE")
_ approach
_ pre-landing / landing "GUMPS"
_ clear of runway
_ pre-taxi
_ shutdown ("fuel not on both, master off")
_ post-shutdown ("tie down, pick up your x, y, and z)
_ walk-away ("hobbs, lock gate")

I use a lot of flow and mnemonics for the other stuff tho.

Tman.

On Apr 16, 8:39*pm, Tman wrote:
Dudley Henriques wrote:
On Apr 15, 6:15 pm, "RST Engineering" wrote:

YOu and I were taught by different people. *A checklist is just that ... a
step by step list of todos so that you don't forget something. *It is very
easy for the mind to go through a "familiar list" and be so rote that you
really DID think you were on both mags when you were only on one.

Jim

The quickest thing that disqualified an applicant on any check flight
I ever gave was the non-use or improper use of a checklist.
Dudley Henriques

An admittedly small sample, but I've actually never seen a professional
pilot do a walkaround on an airplane with a checklist in hand. *Not even
when I'm watching the A320 FO do a walkaround. *I'm sure it happens
though. *I've only seen students and pilots on a checkride do that. *My
instructor told me to "have the checklist in your hand but you don't
really need to look at it" -- for the preflight.

So -- Dudley and others. *Let's be clear here as I am curious. *Which
phases of flight do you use the checklist for?

_ preflight planning
_ drive out to the airport
_ preflight examination
_ getting in and getting fastened
_ engine start and post-start
_ pre-taxi
_ runup
_ pre-takeoff
_ climbout
_ approaching a fix on an IFR flight plan
_ cruise (log fuel, check nav, switch tanks)
_ pre-approach ("WIRE")
_ approach
_ pre-landing / landing "GUMPS"
_ clear of runway
_ pre-taxi
_ shutdown ("fuel not on both, master off")
_ post-shutdown ("tie down, pick up your x, y, and z)
_ walk-away ("hobbs, lock gate")

I have a friend that would honestly "x" everything in each column.

I consider myself a pretty safe pilot. *Answers for me below. *I do a
lot of GUMPS, WIRE, and I use the instrument panel placards (pre-landing
check, etc), in particular, but I am not thinking it is "checklist
usage" unless you have the thing in your hand...

Would I pass your flight test?

_ preflight planning
_ drive out to the airport
_ preflight examination
_x getting in and getting fastened
x_ engine start and post-start
_ pre-taxi
_x runup
_ pre-takeoff
_ climbout
_ approaching a fix on an IFR flight plan
_ pre-approach ("WIRE")
_ approach
_ pre-landing / landing "GUMPS"
_ clear of runway
_ pre-taxi
_ shutdown ("fuel not on both, master off")
_ post-shutdown ("tie down, pick up your x, y, and z)
_ walk-away ("hobbs, lock gate")

I use a lot of flow and mnemonics for the other stuff tho.

Tman.

I both use and teach the use of checklists for any and all procedures
so recommended by the manufacturer.
I also use and teach mnemonics as a supplement to checklists.

The trick with checklists is not to get bogged down in minutia to the
point where you are checking every nut and bolt. A lot depends on the
equipment being flown.

Each pilot is a product of that pilot's exposure to the learning curve
at any instant in that pilot's career.
How a pilot views the use of checklists varies within this context.
Some overdue checklist use. Some are lax on the subject of checklists.
The good pilot develops an attitude toward flight safety that makes
use of any and all appropriate tools devoted toward that end.
How each pilot uses these tools will in large part be determined by
the habit patterns that pilot has developed through the learning
process (which never ends)
Dudley Henriques

Dudley Henriques

Dudley Henriques wrote:

I both use and teach the use of checklists for any and all procedures
so recommended by the manufacturer.
I also use and teach mnemonics as a supplement to checklists.

The trick with checklists is not to get bogged down in minutia to the
point where you are checking every nut and bolt. A lot depends on the
equipment being flown.

OK, I want to get specific.
I pulled my C172 POH. It has "checklist procedures" , but nowhere does
it say to use it as a checklist. Anyways, the checklist procedures
cover Preflight, Pre-Start, Start, Pre-Takeoff, Takeoff, Climb, Cruise,
Pre-Landing, Landing, After-Landing, Securing Airplane.

From my sample of experience I have never seen a pilot use a checklist
on all or even half of these procedures. Is that what you (or anyone
else that opines an honest answer) looks for on a checkride?

And when you use a checklist -- are you looking for it to be used as a
"do-list" or a post-do "check" list.

I can tell you if i had to pull the damn book of cards out every time i
changed phase in flight, and used it as a do-list, it would be
incredibly unnatural, and probably detract from safety.

Anyways, just trying to get more specifics and separate checklist
reality from checklist religion.

TRUE story. A local flight instructor had a letter to editor published
in a major av magazine admonishing everyone from students to ATP's on
the need for "thorough checklist usage" just about everywhere. I think
he had the required anecdote on the guy who took off with the control
lock, pitot cover, or one such thing. Many words were dispensed in the
letter.

I've flown with him and he never pulled the g'darn checklist out or even
hinted I might want to. Sigh...
T