Spin recovery vs tail design

Darryl Ramm wrote:
On May 11, 3:19 pm, Andreas Maurer wrote:

I guess pretty many pilots here have flown the ASW-20 - recovering it
with setting 4 (zhermal setting) with a medium to rearward CG ca take
up to 2 turns, but with flaps 1 (fully negative) recovery takes at
maximum 0.75 turns.

Bye
Andreas

Not surprising at all - it would surprise me if anybody really wants
to teach this. Lets see -

- A desire to teach a standardized recovery
- Don't distract people with grabbing for a handle while under stress
(or if not stress just physically being thrown around a little)
- Likelyhood of grabbing the wrong handle (esp. if transitioning from
another ship) and just moving it (i.e. opening full spoilers)
- With full negative flap what happens to increased likelihood of
entering another/reverse spin if the pilot recovers too "hard"?

Wouldn't the chance of another/reverse spin be even greater in a
positive flap setting if the pilot recovers too "hard"? What I noticed
in my ASW 20 and my ASH 26 E is going to negative flap immediately
stopped the spin and there is nothing to "recover" from except a "mild"
nose down attitude. I haven't tried waiting more than a half turn;
perhaps waiting a full turn or more might be different, but I'm only
concerned about immediate recovery attempts.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA
* Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

* "Transponders in Sailplanes" http://tinyurl.com/y739x4
* Sections on Mode S, TPAS, ADS-B, Flarm, more

* "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation" at www.motorglider.org

Interesting noone has mentiond flap setting yet - setting the flaps
to
negative is by far the best way to quicken up the spin recovery.

Actually flap settings are touched on in my first $0.02 I pitched in 9
posts ago... although I make no mention of negative flaps I simply
state that retracting them hastens the recovery process in it, and
that it was probably not specific to V tails... The Fowler flaps on my
Sisu had 0-20 deg, but no neg... but- flap setting as a concept was at
least mentioned

Feeling like I only pitched in $0.04 (OK, maybe $0.05), but for an
actual price of $0.06,
-Paul

On Mon, 11 May 2009 16:07:29 -0700 (PDT), sisu1a
wrote:

Actually flap settings are touched on in my first $0.02 I pitched in 9
posts ago...

Hey... here in Europe we only move flaps positive and flaps negative,
we don't retract them... we don't even know these fowler type things
(apart from the ones on this Blanik thing)...


although I make no mention of negative flaps I simply
state that retracting them hastens the recovery process in it, and
that it was probably not specific to V tails... The Fowler flaps on my
Sisu had 0-20 deg, but no neg... but- flap setting as a concept was at
least mentioned



Let's wait tll the first one points out to retract the Schempp-Hirth
type airbrakes due to structural reasons...

Bye
Andreas

Andreas Maurer wrote:

Interesting noone has mentiond flap setting yet - setting the flaps to
negative is by far the best way to quicken up the spin recovery.

It may quicken up the recovery, but JAR-22 requires a sailplane to
recover with any flap setting.

On Tue, 12 May 2009 01:25:24 +0200, John Smith
wrote:


It may quicken up the recovery, but JAR-22 requires a sailplane to
recover with any flap setting.

Indeed - but many gliders who are still popular were designed before
JAR-22.
I'm always amazed about how much easier the ASW-27 handles in this
regard compared to a, say, ASW-20.

Bye
Andreas