The Home-made Home-builders Engine

On Jun 2, 11:41*am, jan olieslagers
wrote:

Still, you asked for a 40-60 HP engine
and all and sundry came up with 80-100 hp ideas,
that's my concern now.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dear Jan,

Yes. That is always the case on the internet, where the reader must
sort the wheat from the chaff.

The thread originated with Stealth Pilot (an Australian) pointing out
the dearth of Volkswagen engines in his country or locale, leaving a
hole for LOW COST engines suitable for conversion to power-plants
suitable for use in home-built airplanes. He implied that a 40
horsepower engine would fill the needs of the home-builder, probably
because that is about all a converted VW is good for if you want an
acceptable mean-time before overhaul. I then jumped in and said this
problem was not unique to Australia but would soon be felt world-wide,
especially as more home-builders in S.E. Asia and China begin to
stretch their home-built wings, suggesting we should try to come up
with a solution in the form of an affordable engine in that power-
range.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Seems the US market has a hole, indeed, between
the 30-40 HP range and 80HP upwards.
Europe has _some_ offer there,
but not too much and indeed each with its limitations.
And we badly want information about Asian offerings,
as you already pointed out before.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Home-builders ere in the States are unlikely to feel there is a gap so
long as the Corvair remains in good supply. Nor is their a shortage
world-wide if we are willing to consider heavier, liquid-cooled
engines. Unfortunately such engines are best suited for larger
airframes or fairly complex biplanes, typically beyond the means of
most first-time home-builders, which lead to my wondering about what
engines might be available from TATA, the GM of India, or from the
sleeping tiger of Chinese industrial might. I feel it is important
for us to identify engines suitable for conversion and to do whatever
we can to facilitate grass-roots aviation in those countries.

-R.S.Hoover

"cavelamb" wrote

Rotax - 503 or 582 (618).

When installed and operated correctly they are very reliable.

When installed and operated correctly they are very reliable.

Say that again.
When installed and operated correctly they are very reliable.

Again.
When installed and operated correctly they are very reliable. When
installed and operated correctly they are very reliable. When installed and
operated correctly they are very reliable.

Therein lies the problem. When.
When, When, When.

Too often they are not operated correctly, partially because they are too
many different ways to screw up. When goes all to hell, then.

Logically then, the sentence becomes: When _NOT_ installed and operated
correctly they are _NOT_ very reliable.

In my opinion, no two strokes belong in any plane that does not fly so
slowly that crashes into any object are not survivable.
--
Jim in NC

Morgans wrote:
"cavelamb" wrote
Rotax - 503 or 582 (618).

When installed and operated correctly they are very reliable.

When installed and operated correctly they are very reliable.

Say that again.
When installed and operated correctly they are very reliable.

Again.
When installed and operated correctly they are very reliable. When
installed and operated correctly they are very reliable. When installed and
operated correctly they are very reliable.

Therein lies the problem. When.
When, When, When.

Too often they are not operated correctly, partially because they are too
many different ways to screw up. When goes all to hell, then.

Logically then, the sentence becomes: When _NOT_ installed and operated
correctly they are _NOT_ very reliable.

In my opinion, no two strokes belong in any plane that does not fly so
slowly that crashes into any object are not survivable.


Now HERE'S an interesting thread.
I have seen ultralights go quiet, crash and the tales of resulting dire
injury. But I have no insight into correctly handling the aero 2-stroke.
What constitutes "install and operate correctly."
You could save somebody a whole spoiled day if you will tell.

Thanks

Brian W

Brian Whatcott wrote:
Morgans wrote:
"cavelamb" wrote
Rotax - 503 or 582 (618).

When installed and operated correctly they are very reliable.

When installed and operated correctly they are very reliable.

Say that again.
When installed and operated correctly they are very reliable.

Again.
When installed and operated correctly they are very reliable. When
installed and operated correctly they are very reliable. When
installed and operated correctly they are very reliable.

Therein lies the problem. When.
When, When, When.

Too often they are not operated correctly, partially because they are
too many different ways to screw up. When goes all to hell, then.

Logically then, the sentence becomes: When _NOT_ installed and
operated correctly they are _NOT_ very reliable.

In my opinion, no two strokes belong in any plane that does not fly so
slowly that crashes into any object are not survivable.


Now HERE'S an interesting thread.
I have seen ultralights go quiet, crash and the tales of resulting dire
injury. But I have no insight into correctly handling the aero 2-stroke.
What constitutes "install and operate correctly."
You could save somebody a whole spoiled day if you will tell.

Thanks

Brian W

Installation and operation:
http://www.ultralightnews.ca/rotax50...tionmanual.pdf

Maintenance Schedule:
http://www.ultralightnews.ca/rotax50...ancemanual.pdf

As you said...
While not installed or operated correctly ANY engine will fail.

Do you think a home made engine will be any better?

On Jun 3, 5:51*am, cavelamb wrote:
While not installed or operated correctly ANY engine will fail.

Do you think a home made engine will be any better?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

It is only 'home-made' in the same sense that the Aero-Vee is home-
made. And you don't have to be a rocket-scientist to do better than
that.

-R.S.Hoover

Veeduber wrote:
On Jun 3, 5:51 am, cavelamb wrote:
While not installed or operated correctly ANY engine will fail.
Do you think a home made engine will be any better?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

It is only 'home-made' in the same sense that the Aero-Vee is home-
made. And you don't have to be a rocket-scientist to do better than
that.

-R.S.Hoover

I dunno, Robert.
I mean I understand your position.

But the only fatality we ever had was due to a home brew VW.

Forgive me for butting in, I have no experience or credibility on the
subject, but doesn't the HKS-700E fit right in this category? A
currently-in-production, honest-to-goodness, no-kidding, real airplane
engine; 60 HP, 100-odd pound 4-stoke twin cylinder, dual ignition,
integral gearbox with torsional shock apsorber and optional gear
ratios. I realize many will hack and wheeze at $10K price tag, but in
the world of airplane engines isn't this dirt cheap?

What are the fundamental problems with the HKS that it isn't one of
the options being discussed?

Gerry

Gerry van Dyk wrote:
Forgive me for butting in, I have no experience or credibility on the
subject, but doesn't the HKS-700E fit right in this category? A
currently-in-production, honest-to-goodness, no-kidding, real airplane
engine; 60 HP, 100-odd pound 4-stoke twin cylinder, dual ignition,
integral gearbox with torsional shock apsorber and optional gear
ratios. I realize many will hack and wheeze at $10K price tag, but in
the world of airplane engines isn't this dirt cheap?

What are the fundamental problems with the HKS that it isn't one of
the options being discussed?

Gerry

Briefly, the homebuilder would be overjoyed to find a device that's
dirt-cheap, rock-solid, as reliable as taxes, and oh: pretty would be nice.
That's a hard prescription to fill, but the faithful keep thinking
and looking. $2K would be nice - $10K isn't.

Brian W

Gerry van Dyk wrote:
Forgive me for butting in, I have no experience or credibility on the
subject, but doesn't the HKS-700E fit right in this category? A
currently-in-production, honest-to-goodness, no-kidding, real airplane
engine; 60 HP, 100-odd pound 4-stoke twin cylinder, dual ignition,
integral gearbox with torsional shock apsorber and optional gear
ratios. I realize many will hack and wheeze at $10K price tag, but in
the world of airplane engines isn't this dirt cheap?

What are the fundamental problems with the HKS that it isn't one of
the options being discussed?

Gerry


I can't answer you on that, Gerry, because I've never even seen one
much less actually flown it.

But the numbers sure look good.

The Rotax 912 isn't much more than that, and it's rated at 80 hp.

Then there is the little Jabaru (60?)

The last VW I built was a fully equipped 2180.
(208 pounds with starter, alternator, single mag, mount, etc)
It cost about $5k, when all was said and done.
It was still a 40 horse motor.

On Tue, 2 Jun 2009 19:59:09 -0700 (PDT), Veeduber
wrote:

On Jun 2, 11:41*am, jan olieslagers
wrote:

Still, you asked for a 40-60 HP engine
and all and sundry came up with 80-100 hp ideas,
that's my concern now.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dear Jan,

Yes. That is always the case on the internet, where the reader must
sort the wheat from the chaff.

The thread originated with Stealth Pilot (an Australian) pointing out
the dearth of Volkswagen engines in his country or locale, leaving a
hole for LOW COST engines suitable for conversion to power-plants
suitable for use in home-built airplanes. He implied that a 40
horsepower engine would fill the needs of the home-builder, probably
because that is about all a converted VW is good for if you want an
acceptable mean-time before overhaul. I then jumped in and said this
problem was not unique to Australia but would soon be felt world-wide,
especially as more home-builders in S.E. Asia and China begin to
stretch their home-built wings, suggesting we should try to come up
with a solution in the form of an affordable engine in that power-
range.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Seems the US market has a hole, indeed, between
the 30-40 HP range and 80HP upwards.
Europe has _some_ offer there,
but not too much and indeed each with its limitations.
And we badly want information about Asian offerings,
as you already pointed out before.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Home-builders ere in the States are unlikely to feel there is a gap so
long as the Corvair remains in good supply. Nor is their a shortage
world-wide if we are willing to consider heavier, liquid-cooled
engines. Unfortunately such engines are best suited for larger
airframes or fairly complex biplanes, typically beyond the means of
most first-time home-builders, which lead to my wondering about what
engines might be available from TATA, the GM of India, or from the
sleeping tiger of Chinese industrial might. I feel it is important
for us to identify engines suitable for conversion and to do whatever
we can to facilitate grass-roots aviation in those countries.

-R.S.Hoover

bang on the money Bob.
Stealth Pilot