SHUT UP !!! YOU'LL JINX THE MISSION !!!!

"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...
Subject: SHUT UP !!! YOU'LL JINX THE MISSION !!!!
From: "Mike"
Date: 8/8/2004 11:57 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:

In other words shut your mouth and just fly your
missions.

And then talk about them for the next 60 years.


If you don't want to hear about them, then just don't read them. Nobody
is
forcing you to.

To be fair, no one is forcing YOU to write them.

Subject: SHUT UP !!! YOU'LL JINX THE MISSION !!!!
From: "Adrian"
Date: 8/8/2004 11:06 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:


"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...
Subject: SHUT UP !!! YOU'LL JINX THE MISSION !!!!
From: "Mike"
Date: 8/8/2004 11:57 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:

In other words shut your mouth and just fly your
missions.

And then talk about them for the next 60 years.


If you don't want to hear about them, then just don't read them. Nobody
is
forcing you to.
snip

Ignore the trolls. I for one, always enjoy your tales. I wish more veterans
did it. Keep it up

Adrian Edmonds


Thank you for the kind words. You will find that most who denigrate never
actually flew a mission or were even in combat. They just endlessley quote what
they read in books to each other. I pay no attention to wannabees and will
contine to see to it that the men I flew with are never forgotten in spite of
the wanabbes and their rendless baby talk. Besides most of their attacks are
poitically motivated and are not worth any attention whatever. Stay tuned more
to come. A lot more. We must never forget absent friends.



Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

In article ,
ArtKramr wrote:
Subject: SHUT UP !!! YOU'LL JINX THE MISSION !!!!
From: "Adrian"
Date: 8/8/2004 11:06 PM Pacific Standard Time

Ignore the trolls. I for one, always enjoy your tales. I wish more veterans
did it. Keep it up

Thank you for the kind words. You will find that most who denigrate never
actually flew a mission or were even in combat. They just endlessley quote what

Can I second Adrian's comments? It's important for as many people out
there as possible - most of them are 2 generations removed from what
Art and his comrades (and my father and /his/) went through - to
know that war is not something that happens on TV.

Over and above that, I'm particularly interested in your take on the
air war, given that my father spent two years doing air-sea rescue
in the channel[1], much of the "custom" being US aircrews coming back
from the big daylight raids. They didn't get many Marauder survivors
though (nor many from Beaufighters - neither ditched well) and for
that reason alone rated those crews highly.

As to the "politics" that some here object to - I've noticed similar
views taken by a good proportion of WW2 veterans I've met. Those who
have said have ascribed it to having seen the elephant.

[1] ASR plus combat sweeps - the RN believed in working its coastal
craft hard.

--
Andy Breen ~ Interplanetary Scintillation Research Group
http://users.aber.ac.uk/azb/
"Who dies with the most toys wins" (Gary Barnes)

Subject: SHUT UP !!! YOU'LL JINX THE MISSION !!!!
From: (ANDREW ROBERT BREEN)
Date: 8/9/2004 6:44 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:

Over and above that, I'm particularly interested in your take on the
air war, given that my father spent two years doing air-sea rescue
in the channel[1], much of the "custom" being US aircrews coming back
from the big daylight raids. They didn't get many Marauder survivors
though (nor many from Beaufighters - neither ditched well) and for
that reason alone rated those crews highly.

The reason there were so few Marauder suvivors is because the Marauder wouldn't
float for more that 20 seconds It would be at the bottom of the channel before
you could ever get to it. And it was not an easy plane to evacuate in 20
seconds. When we were came home from missions with damage we would all pray not
to have to ditch in the channel. As we crossed the French coast we would
strain to see the white cliffs of Dover.The most beautiful sight in the owrld.
That is where home was.

As to the "politics" that some here object to - I've noticed similar
views taken by a good proportion of WW2 veterans I've met. Those who
have said have ascribed it to having seen the elephant.

Your father was a hero. We all revered the work doine by air sea rescue.We
never needed them, but we were sure glad they were there below us waiting to
snatch us out of the sea..


Thanks for the kind words. I really appreciate it.


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

In article ,
ArtKramr wrote:
Subject: SHUT UP !!! YOU'LL JINX THE MISSION !!!!
From: (ANDREW ROBERT BREEN)
Date: 8/9/2004 6:44 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:

Over and above that, I'm particularly interested in your take on the
air war, given that my father spent two years doing air-sea rescue
in the channel[1], much of the "custom" being US aircrews coming back
from the big daylight raids. They didn't get many Marauder survivors
though (nor many from Beaufighters - neither ditched well) and for
that reason alone rated those crews highly.

The reason there were so few Marauder suvivors is because the Marauder wouldn't
float for more that 20 seconds It would be at the bottom of the channel before
you could ever get to it. And it was not an easy plane to evacuate in 20

Same with the Beau, they said - big, heavy and the way out was underneath.
My father's line was "no-one got out of a Beau".

seconds. When we were came home from missions with damage we would all pray not
to have to ditch in the channel. As we crossed the French coast we would
strain to see the white cliffs of Dover.The most beautiful sight in the owrld.
That is where home was.

He talked about sitting in the channel and everybody in the boat /willing/
the returning planes over the cliffs, especially the cripples at the tail
end of the stream.
The worst ones for him - for all of them on the boats - were the planes
which crashed in on ditching, either flying down through the sea mist
or trying to land on it. Grim.

Your father was a hero. We all revered the work doine by air sea rescue.We
never needed them, but we were sure glad they were there below us waiting to
snatch us out of the sea..

He was always much prouder of the lives he saved - both in ASR and in the
Atlantic - than the ones he took. And I'd not argue with your description
of him.

Thanks for the kind words. I really appreciate it.

Thank you for coming over and helping this country and this continent.
Anything I can say is kind of inadequate thanks.

--
Andy Breen ~ Interplanetary Scintillation Research Group
http://users.aber.ac.uk/azb/
"Time has stopped, says the Black Lion clock
and eternity has begun" (Dylan Thomas)

Subject: SHUT UP !!! YOU'LL JINX THE MISSION !!!!
From: (ANDREW ROBERT BREEN)
Date: 8/9/2004 7:44 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:

In article ,
ArtKramr wrote:
Subject: SHUT UP !!! YOU'LL JINX THE MISSION !!!!
From: (ANDREW ROBERT BREEN)
Date: 8/9/2004 6:44 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:

Over and above that, I'm particularly interested in your take on the
air war, given that my father spent two years doing air-sea rescue
in the channel[1], much of the "custom" being US aircrews coming back
from the big daylight raids. They didn't get many Marauder survivors
though (nor many from Beaufighters - neither ditched well) and for
that reason alone rated those crews highly.

The reason there were so few Marauder suvivors is because the Marauder
wouldn't
float for more that 20 seconds It would be at the bottom of the channel
before
you could ever get to it. And it was not an easy plane to evacuate in 20

Same with the Beau, they said - big, heavy and the way out was underneath.
My father's line was "no-one got out of a Beau".

seconds. When we were came home from missions with damage we would all pray
not
to have to ditch in the channel. As we crossed the French coast we would
strain to see the white cliffs of Dover.The most beautiful sight in the
owrld.
That is where home was.

He talked about sitting in the channel and everybody in the boat /willing/
the returning planes over the cliffs, especially the cripples at the tail
end of the stream.
The worst ones for him - for all of them on the boats - were the planes
which crashed in on ditching, either flying down through the sea mist
or trying to land on it. Grim.

Your father was a hero. We all revered the work doine by air sea rescue.We
never needed them, but we were sure glad they were there below us waiting
to
snatch us out of the sea..

He was always much prouder of the lives he saved - both in ASR and in the
Atlantic - than the ones he took. And I'd not argue with your description
of him.

Thanks for the kind words. I really appreciate it.

Thank you for coming over and helping this country and this continent.
Anything I can say is kind of inadequate thanks.

--
Andy Breen ~ Interplanetary Scintillation Research Group
http://users.aber.ac.uk/azb/
"Time has stopped, says the Black Lion clock
and eternity has begun" (Dylan Thomas)


One of the things I came away with was a feeling that in some small way I wasa
part of England. Every time I return to Englasnd I feel as though it is a
small homecoming. BTW, there is a plaque at our old airifeld at Stansted
dedicated to the 344th Bomb Goup. Take a look at it if yuo are ever there. And
if you are so inclined you might want to place a small flower at the plaque.
Lest we forget.
Lest we forget.



Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

Subject: SHUT UP !!! YOU'LL JINX THE MISSION !!!!
From: "Ragnar"
Date: 8/9/2004 1:57 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:


"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...
Subject: SHUT UP !!! YOU'LL JINX THE MISSION !!!!
From: "Mike"
Date: 8/8/2004 11:57 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:

In other words shut your mouth and just fly your
missions.

And then talk about them for the next 60 years.


If you don't want to hear about them, then just don't read them. Nobody
is
forcing you to.

To be fair, no one is forcing YOU to write them.

I am being forced to write them by men who I flew with who now lie buried in
foreign graves.

"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...
Subject: SHUT UP !!! YOU'LL JINX THE MISSION !!!!
From: "Ragnar"
Date: 8/9/2004 1:57 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:


"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...
Subject: SHUT UP !!! YOU'LL JINX THE MISSION !!!!
From: "Mike"
Date: 8/8/2004 11:57 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:

In other words shut your mouth and just fly your
missions.

And then talk about them for the next 60 years.


If you don't want to hear about them, then just don't read them.
Nobody
is
forcing you to.

To be fair, no one is forcing YOU to write them.

I am being forced to write them by men who I flew with who now lie
buried in
foreign graves.

As he again toodles out his attempt at wrapping himself in other men's glory
in an attempt to claok himself from rebuke...makes you want to gag.

Brooks

Subject: SHUT UP !!! YOU'LL JINX THE MISSION !!!!
From: "Kevin Brooks"
Date: 8/9/2004 6:24 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:


"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...
Subject: SHUT UP !!! YOU'LL JINX THE MISSION !!!!
From: "Ragnar"
Date: 8/9/2004 1:57 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:


"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...
Subject: SHUT UP !!! YOU'LL JINX THE MISSION !!!!
From: "Mike"
Date: 8/8/2004 11:57 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:

In other words shut your mouth and just fly your
missions.

And then talk about them for the next 60 years.


If you don't want to hear about them, then just don't read them.
Nobody
is
forcing you to.

To be fair, no one is forcing YOU to write them.

I am being forced to write them by men who I flew with who now lie
buried in
foreign graves.

As he again toodles out his attempt at wrapping himself in other men's glory
in an attempt to claok himself from rebuke...makes you want to gag.

Brooks


What makes me want to gag is the fact that with all the bull**** you spew you
never saw a second of combat, never fired a shot in anger, never faced an enemy
for your country. You and your bull**** make me want to gag. Don't spew your
crap about what war was like, You wouldn't know. So go back and hide under
that desk you flew as you always did when men were fighting and dying for their
country and you were nowhere to seen


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

There you go again Art-

Spouting off EXACTLY like the "titless WAF back at HQ making coffee"
wrapping yourself in the stolen war stories of your betters.

If it talks like a Duck, Walks like a Duck, and Quacks like a Duck . . . it
might not actually be a Duck, but you are sure doing a good impression of
the bragadocious little peacock with the big self esteem problem.

Steve Swartz

"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...
Subject: SHUT UP !!! YOU'LL JINX THE MISSION !!!!
From: "Kevin Brooks"
Date: 8/9/2004 6:24 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:


"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...
Subject: SHUT UP !!! YOU'LL JINX THE MISSION !!!!
From: "Ragnar"
Date: 8/9/2004 1:57 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:


"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...
Subject: SHUT UP !!! YOU'LL JINX THE MISSION !!!!
From: "Mike"
Date: 8/8/2004 11:57 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:

In other words shut your mouth and just fly your
missions.

And then talk about them for the next 60 years.


If you don't want to hear about them, then just don't read them.
Nobody
is
forcing you to.

To be fair, no one is forcing YOU to write them.

I am being forced to write them by men who I flew with who now lie
buried in
foreign graves.

As he again toodles out his attempt at wrapping himself in other men's
glory
in an attempt to claok himself from rebuke...makes you want to gag.

Brooks


What makes me want to gag is the fact that with all the bull**** you spew
you
never saw a second of combat, never fired a shot in anger, never faced an
enemy
for your country. You and your bull**** make me want to gag. Don't spew
your
crap about what war was like, You wouldn't know. So go back and hide
under
that desk you flew as you always did when men were fighting and dying for
their
country and you were nowhere to seen


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer