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#291
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"Vanishing American Air Superiority"
On Mar 20, 1:37*pm, William Black wrote:
Alexander wrote: Actually Kaiser of America built thousands of liberty ships out of Fero-concrete. Diesel Engine dropped in minutes Welded steel and fuel oil fired triple expansion engines. -- William Black "Any number under six" The answer given by Englishman Richard Peeke when asked by the Duke of Medina Sidonia how many Spanish sword and buckler men he could beat single handed with a quarterstaff. Note the ferro-concrete ships were smaller,4600 tons, than the Liberties, 14,000 tons, and took longer, three to six weeks, compared to the Kaiser-built ship every ten days. And, the ferro-concretes generally were only made late, 1944-5. |
#292
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"Vanishing American Air Superiority"
Don Ocean wrote:
Keith Willshaw wrote: "Ken S. Tucker" wrote in message ... On Mar 17, 3:38 pm, "Paul J. Adam" wrote: In message , Ken S. Tucker writes I was told the Nazi's could have easily taken England, no sweat. In the same way that the Japanese could have conquered the US in five days in 1941 if they'd only bothered to try? (Land in California, commandeer weapons and transport from the cowardly fleeing populace, race the bad news to Washington, impose Imperial hegemony, declare victory while forcibly recruiting all white females between seven and seventy for "recreational services"?) I think whoever was telling you this, was pulling your leg so hard it's still out of its socket, and they're still telling the story of "some clueless guy called Tucker" who didn't just swallow the hook but took the line, and the sinker, and tried to eat the rod as well. I think the source is reliable, my Old Boy was a WW2 vet spook who had more access to info than any historian will ever get, and explained it to me. That said, I don't want to play 'what if' games, ok. But I'll let you in on a secret, the Brits had thousands of cannons after Dunkirk, available for Nazi photo recon, made of wood logs, that's all the Brits had was bluff, but I think it was good in any case, the croats figured it was real. Britain was not at war with Croatia. The Brits, had a few rifles left after Dunkirk, 2 or 3. Apart from those in the hands of the 11 infantry divisions and 2 armoured brigades deployed for home defense. Those 2 or 3 rifles came in rather handy in defeating the large Italian army that invaded Egypt Paint a few hundred barges black and gliders too, move out at 10 or 11 pm, and by 5 am the king is being raped in the ass by Nazi's. As I said, no sweat. There are a few minor problems, 50+ destroyers, a couple of dozen cruisers 5 or 6 Battleships and 20 bomber squadrons would be taking turns at shooting up those barges which would be moving at a slow walking pace. Oops. All sunk of course. Who by? The German air force had problems hit a collier running up the channel at 7 knots in those days and their ship had this nasty habit of sinking if they occupied the space adjacent to any RN ships of the same size, mainly because the RN had a lot more ships... -- William Black "Any number under six" The answer given by Englishman Richard Peeke when asked by the Duke of Medina Sidonia how many Spanish sword and buckler men he could beat single handed with a quarterstaff. |
#293
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"Vanishing American Air Superiority"
Ken S. Tucker wrote:
You have the benefit of wearing rose colored glasses, but be careful, you may end up paying for "easy" wars in Iraq, Afghanistan and ... OTOH, it's good to have realistic hard cold logical analysis. Ken I don't ever remember anyone saying that Afghanistan would be easy. -- William Black "Any number under six" The answer given by Englishman Richard Peeke when asked by the Duke of Medina Sidonia how many Spanish sword and buckler men he could beat single handed with a quarterstaff. |
#294
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"Vanishing American Air Superiority"
Alexander wrote:
Andrew Swallow wrote: William Black wrote: "Alexander" wrote in message ... You are dreaming. Very few War Historians believe that the English Lion would not succumb in the event Germany had turned to England rather then Russia. How do they get there to inflict this defeat? And even if they do get to England how does the German Army resupply? The Royal Navy would find sinking unarmed merchant ships and barges in the Channel a turkey shoot. Unlike land battles ordinary trunks on ordinary roads/railways cannot be used. Andrew Swallow If the ports are over run who refuels, rearms the ships that are now toothless. How the hell do the Germans over-run Scapa. -- William Black "Any number under six" The answer given by Englishman Richard Peeke when asked by the Duke of Medina Sidonia how many Spanish sword and buckler men he could beat single handed with a quarterstaff. |
#295
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"Vanishing American Air Superiority"
Alexander wrote:
William Black wrote: "Alexander" wrote in message ... You are dreaming. Very few War Historians believe that the English Lion would not succumb in the event Germany had turned to England rather then Russia. How do they get there to inflict this defeat? That has already been answered. Move on. Well, no it hasn't. How do you defeat the Royal Navy? Magic pixies with ship destroying oofle dust? -- William Black "Any number under six" The answer given by Englishman Richard Peeke when asked by the Duke of Medina Sidonia how many Spanish sword and buckler men he could beat single handed with a quarterstaff. |
#296
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"Vanishing American Air Superiority"
In message , William Black
writes Alexander wrote: That has already been answered. Move on. Well, no it hasn't. How do you defeat the Royal Navy? Magic pixies with ship destroying oofle dust? The Germans have a plan. Their chief weapon is a cunning plan...a cunning plan and cool uniforms...cunning plan and shiny jackboots.... Their two weapons are a cunning plan and their nifty uniforms...and their ruthless Teutonic efficiency.... Their *three* weapons are a cunning plan, cool uniforms, and ruthless efficiency...and an almost fanatical devotion to the Fuhrer.... their *four*...no... *Amongst* their weapons.... Amongst their weaponry...are such elements as cunning plans, smart uniforms.... I'll come in again? -- He thinks too much, such men are dangerous. Paul J. Adam |
#297
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"Vanishing American Air Superiority"
On Mar 20, 10:21 am, William Black
wrote: Ken S. Tucker wrote: On Mar 18, 12:36 am, "William Black" wrote: "Ken S. Tucker" wrote in ... I think the source is reliable, my Old Boy was a WW2 vet spook who had more access to info than any historian will ever get, and explained it to me. My my, someone on the BIGOT list and who had access to ULTRA. That's about a dozen people below general officer rank. Shouldn't be too hard to identify him. That said, I don't want to play 'what if' games, ok. Not sure about the "BIGOT" acronym, a Why am I not surprised... It's not an acronym, it's a code word. Well I missed that memo. After 2-3 years he wrote a stack of reports that would fill a filing cabinet, probably still classified. Oh no they won't be. In canuckistan it's secret or once declassified it's burned, didn't you get the memo. He had access to everything, as you can imagine, but the only person he'd talk to about it was me, and only at the cottage we built when we were alone, after drinking he'd loosen up a bit, but he was always careful about what he said. Nobody except the heads of state and the joint chiefs committee had access to everything. Many commanders in chief weren't given ULTRA access. Old Boy told me he was a corporal, he was ordered to de-brief RCAF personel, and I presume said personel were ordered to provide full cooperation, so he wouldn't need to give a rat's ass about ULTRA, except how effective it was, to feedback into the chain of command, his duties in that respect were more than clerical. RCAF trained him for a year in Pathfinder Navigation prior to making him a de-briefer, and navigation involves a lot of secret stuff, so he likely ended up knowing more about ULTRA than ULTRA did, where results are concerned, and then write a synopsis for strategists, based on de-briefing from fielded and experienced personel. Have you considered reading a book? Which book did you read? Start with Churchill. Ya think a politician is unbiased do you? The Brits, had a few rifles left after Dunkirk, 2 or 3. Paint a few hundred barges black and gliders too, move out at 10 or 11 pm, and by 5 am the king is being raped in the ass by Nazi's. As I said, no sweat. Aren't we forgetting someone? This being a naval group and all... The RN was pretty much useless, recall Pearl Harbor, Recall Taranto and Cape Matapan... suppose the Nazi's float a bunch of cheap boats, the RN responds and the Luftwaff would've put a lot of iron in the channel. Barges are ultra cheap, especially when they're empty. And so easy to sink, especially at night. But look at what you're risking, to sink a cheap barge. Now look up how good the Germans were at sinking ships with bombs at that date. As good or better than anyone. Oh yes, and assuming they do land. How on earth do they get over the Military Canal in a night? 40 miles = 8 x 5, how long is a night? (please don't tell me I need to prove math). You don't know what the Military Canal is do you? Mr. Black Well we had lakefront property on Lk Ontario, the Englosh Channel is what the girls liked to swim across too. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marilyn_Bell Is that what you mean? Ken |
#298
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"Vanishing American Air Superiority"
Ken S. Tucker wrote:
On Mar 20, 10:21 am, William Black wrote: It's not an acronym, it's a code word. Well I missed that memo. You're not kidding. After 2-3 years he wrote a stack of reports that would fill a filing cabinet, probably still classified. Oh no they won't be. In canuckistan it's secret or once declassified it's burned, didn't you get the memo. ********. It's filed away and released when of no interest to anyone but historians. Many commanders in chief weren't given ULTRA access. Old Boy told me he was a corporal, So he didn't actually have any access at all. I presume said personel were ordered to provide full cooperation, so he wouldn't need to give a rat's ass about ULTRA, except how effective it was, to feedback into the chain of command, his duties in that respect were more than clerical. You mean he was an intelligence clerk. RCAF trained him for a year in Pathfinder Navigation prior to making him a de-briefer Not a chance. Aircrew were all promoted to sergeant on selection. , and navigation involves a lot of secret stuff, so he likely ended up knowing more about ULTRA than ULTRA did, Take it from me, anyone selected for aircrew training wouldn't have been allowed within a mile of ULTRA where results are concerned, and then write a synopsis for strategists, based on de-briefing from fielded and experienced personel. Corporals don't. Barges are ultra cheap, especially when they're empty. And so easy to sink, especially at night. But look at what you're risking, to sink a cheap barge. Barges son, barges... Now look up how good the Germans were at sinking ships with bombs at that date. As good or better than anyone. Nope. They had some real problems sinking anything. They could hit some stuff standing still, but at Dunkirk, bombing stationary ships, their performance was dreadful. You don't know what the Military Canal is do you? Mr. Black Well we had lakefront property on Lk Ontario, the Englosh Channel is what the girls liked to swim across too. The Military Canal is not the Channel. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Military_Canal It's not getting into it, it's getting out. -- William Black "Any number under six" The answer given by Englishman Richard Peeke when asked by the Duke of Medina Sidonia how many Spanish sword and buckler men he could beat single handed with a quarterstaff. |
#299
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"Vanishing American Air Superiority"
On Mar 20, 11:15*am, "Paul J. Adam"
wrote: In message , William Black writes Alexander wrote: *That has already been answered. Move on. Well, *no it hasn't. How do you defeat the Royal Navy? Magic pixies with ship destroying oofle dust? The Germans have a plan. Their chief weapon is a cunning plan...a cunning plan and cool uniforms...cunning plan and shiny jackboots.... Their two weapons are a cunning plan and their nifty uniforms...and their ruthless Teutonic efficiency.... Their *three* weapons are a cunning plan, cool uniforms, and ruthless efficiency...and an almost fanatical devotion to the Fuhrer.... their *four*...no... *Amongst* their weapons.... Amongst their weaponry...are such elements as cunning plans, smart uniforms.... I'll come in again? -- He thinks too much, such men are dangerous. Paul J. Adam Wow, I didn't expect the Nazi inquisition! BB |
#300
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"Vanishing American Air Superiority"
William Black wrote in
: Ken S. Tucker wrote: On Mar 20, 10:21 am, William Black wrote: It's not an acronym, it's a code word. Well I missed that memo. You're not kidding. After 2-3 years he wrote a stack of reports that would fill a filing cabinet, probably still classified. Oh no they won't be. In canuckistan it's secret or once declassified it's burned, didn't you get the memo. ********. It's filed away and released when of no interest to anyone but historians. Exactly. My father's last post before retirement was as the Senior Research Officer in the Directorate of History of NDHQ in Ottawa from about '71 to '82. One of his secondary duties was directorate security officer. As such, he was responsible for more classified documents than anyone else in NDHQ, and he, under the instructions of the Director, controled access to every classifed document in RG24 at the National Archives. They had tonnes of documents in 600 filing cabinets and safes in the Ogilvie Annex of NDHQ, and every six months he had to go through a classified document muster. My father's magnum opus in his last years was to help draft the Access to Information Act's declassification sections. He did it with a view to releasing as much as possible as soon as possible, because he knew that keeping secrets is expensive. However, he knew that some secrets might have to be kept forever. (I suspect that the "forever" secrets have more to do with our allies than our erstwhile enemies.) Many commanders in chief weren't given ULTRA access. Old Boy told me he was a corporal, So he didn't actually have any access at all. Corporals working on BIGOT material likely only handled envelopes and folders, or PA'ed documents to file and little else. I presume said personel were ordered to provide full cooperation, so he wouldn't need to give a rat's ass about ULTRA, except how effective it was, to feedback into the chain of command, his duties in that respect were more than clerical. You mean he was an intelligence clerk. Tucker appears to have woven an old boy's yarn into whole cloth. RCAF trained him for a year in Pathfinder Navigation prior to making him a de-briefer, Not a chance. Anyone the RCAF took the trouble to train as a navigator went on to flying duties--unless he washed out for medical or other reasons. Aircrew were all promoted to sergeant on selection. and navigation involves a lot of secret stuff, so he likely ended up knowing more about ULTRA than ULTRA did, Take it from me, anyone selected for aircrew training wouldn't have been allowed within a mile of ULTRA And any secret stuff people on flying duties saw had a very, very short shelf life. where results are concerned, and then write a synopsis for strategists, based on de-briefing from fielded and experienced personel. Corporals don't. Barges are ultra cheap, especially when they're empty. And so easy to sink, especially at night. But look at what you're risking, to sink a cheap barge. Barges son, barges... Now look up how good the Germans were at sinking ships with bombs at that date. As good or better than anyone. Nope. They had some real problems sinking anything. They could hit some stuff standing still, but at Dunkirk, bombing stationary ships, their performance was dreadful. You don't know what the Military Canal is do you? Mr. Black Well we had lakefront property on Lk Ontario, the Englosh Channel is what the girls liked to swim across too. The Military Canal is not the Channel. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Military_Canal It's not getting into it, it's getting out. You're getting a good demonstration of how resistant Canadian brick masonry is to logic, William. -- Andrew Chaplin SIT MIHI GLADIUS SICUT SANCTO MARTINO (If you're going to e-mail me, you'll have to get "yourfinger." out.) |
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