SR-71

John Szalay added these comments in the current discussion du
jour ...

BTW: the F-117s are gone now too !
Wings removed and stored somewhere off Highway 6, near
Tonopah Nv.

Really?! Didn't know that. Guess they really were stealthy,
huh? What killed them, high maintenence costs for the paint,
mission has changed so much it is no longer effective,
emphasis shifting to UAVs, what, John.

F-22, the F-117 is OLD, the F-22 according to the Brass, is
just as
stealthy, without the high maint.

Hmmm. My rather limited knowledge on the F-22 suggests that it's
stealh is in the 50-70% range, not the nearly 100% of the F-117.
Has there been a significant upgrade to the stealthiness of the
F-22? There seems to be scientific barriers that make higher
stealth and higher performance mutually exclusive, e.g., the F-
117 and B-2 are sub-sonic. Also, isn't the F-22 a multi-Mach air
superiority fighter/bomber by basic design? If yes, would it have
to drop to sub-sonic to be stealthy?

The F-22 is, I think, an air superiority fighter/bomber, but
isn't 100% stealth. Aurora, if it really exists, would be
such a high flier it presumeable won't need it. Which makes
me curious about the F-117.

Aurora , IMHO: does not exist, except in some tect writers
mind..

I tend to agree, John. I think it is a masterful piece of post-
Cold War dis-information intended to keep our new enemies as well
as our old enemies guessing. The evidence of its existance
borders on that of UFO sightings in Area 57, yet those who
believe there is some middle ground between ordinary supersonic
aircraft and rockets or satellites might be driving a modern day
Skunk Works under deep cover on Aurora.

Tell you one thing, John, I would not want to be on a B-2
crew. Stationed at Whitmon in Missouri, fly 26 hour missions
with 6 or more air-to-air refuelings, yada, yada. And, all
they have is a porta potty and a bunk bed to catch some Zs
on. I guess I understand why they were never deployed
overseas,

B-2 are rotated out to Diego Garcia and to Guam, both bases
have hangers built to protect them..
The one that was lost several months ago, was one of a flight
of four that was forward deployed to guam, another B-2 flight
took their place and it was time for them to go back to
Whiteman AFB...

I didn't know we deployed these aircraft to any overseas bases. I
asssume you mean that the hangars are super hardened in some ways
to protect the aircraft as much as is fiscally reasonable. So, it
seems that Guam still has a place as a AFB after doing so well as
a B-29 airfield in WWII. Thanks, John.

--
HP, aka Jerry

"The enemy of my enemy is my friend, the enemy of my friend is my
enemy, but the friend of my enemy is also my enemy" - variant of
Middle East Maxim

"HEMI-Powered" wrote in news:Xns9B1F4EE0E99EFReplyScoreID@6
I didn't know we deployed these aircraft to any overseas bases. I
asssume you mean that the hangars are super hardened in some ways
to protect the aircraft as much as is fiscally reasonable.



No actually, the main reason for the hangers is protection from
the rain. Strange as it may seem..
the water is a major concern for the B-2's surfaces.. will look up the
article..

John Szalay added these comments in the current discussion du
jour ...

I didn't know we deployed these aircraft to any overseas
bases. I asssume you mean that the hangars are super hardened
in some ways to protect the aircraft as much as is fiscally
reasonable.

No actually, the main reason for the hangers is protection
from
the rain. Strange as it may seem..
the water is a major concern for the B-2's surfaces.. will
look up the article..

Thanks for the info. No need to do research for me unless you're
personally interested in it yourself.

So, if these very expensive - $2B each? - and very scarce, what
protects them from a terrorist attack of some sort on Guam or an
attack by another country with an air force and/or missiles? Again,
no need to research, just looking for your own opinion.

Do you agree that mainly parking these birds in the American
Midwest was chosen to maximize their ability to fly anywhere in the
world with the most optimum time as well as protect them (hopefull)
from attack?

Whatever, have a great Saturday, John. I've learned a lot from you
about these planes.

--
HP, aka Jerry

"Don't say 'can't' when you really mean 'won't'"

"HEMI-Powered" wrote in news:Xns9B1E7C124E806ReplyScoreID@2

"The SR-71 has 6 main BF Goodrich 32-ply tires, each filled
with 415 PSI of nitrogen. Impregnated with aluminum powder to
reduce heat"

Them's one helluva lot of psi's! Never thought of using a metallic
powder as a heat sink for the "rubber" tires.


There are many unique items about the Blackbird,
the fuel, the special B.F Goodrich tires, the spike, the massive engines
the oil, the metal used to build her.
the cadmium free tools required to work on her.
the paint, the wiring and connectors themelves were a problem
becasue of the heat at speed.

Ben Rich goes on for almost a full chapter in his book, on the problems
of building and maint on the plane.
Great read by the way...

John Szalay added these comments in the current discussion du
jour ...

"The SR-71 has 6 main BF Goodrich 32-ply tires, each filled
with 415 PSI of nitrogen. Impregnated with aluminum powder
to reduce heat"

Them's one helluva lot of psi's! Never thought of using a
metallic powder as a heat sink for the "rubber" tires.

There are many unique items about the Blackbird,
the fuel, the special B.F Goodrich tires, the spike, the
massive engines the oil, the metal used to build her.
the cadmium free tools required to work on her.
the paint,

Why cadmium-free tools? would there be a weird electrolytic
reaction or something if cadmium came in contact with the paint?

the wiring and connectors themelves were a problem
becasue of the heat at speed.

I would think from expansion of the connectors and wiring from
heat generated by the airframe at speed, just like the fuel leak
on the ground issue which stemmed from a need for larger metal
and seal clearances on the fuel tanks to avoid crumpling when the
metal exapanded.

Ben Rich goes on for almost a full chapter in his book, on the
problems of building and maint on the plane.
Great read by the way...

I must've missed your first mention of this book. Could you
please repeat the title as well as the author so I can make a
note go to the library?

The relatively little I already knew about the SR-71 plus your
comments suggest that this was one damn advanced aircraft for the
late 1950s/early 1960s era in aviation. Can't recall who said
that Kelly Johnson never got the recognition he truly deserved,
especially for his Skunk Works projects. Without him, we'd not
have had an effective intelligence gathering tool over the USSR
after Powers was shot down at 80,000+ feet in his U-2. And, we
were a generation away from the first spy satellites and
effectively 2 generations from UAVs, both of which have
limitations.

Do you foresee anything on the horizon for a high altitude, maybe
stealthy, high speed air breathing aircraft to be developed
especially for intelligence gathering to replace the Blackbird?

--
HP, aka Jerry

"Don't say 'can't' when you really mean 'won't'"

Maple1 wrote in

http://gizmodo.com/5052279/f+117-ste...terpillar-crus
her--pile-of-sadness




That aircraft was ‘Article 784’, the fifth full-scale development F-117A,
and it was destroyed at the US Air Force’s Plant 42 site in Palmdale, Calif
after being stripped of all useable and secret items..

All the remaining operational Blackjets were retired to Tonopah.
(other than the 4 now in museums)

"HEMI-Powered" wrote in
So, if these very expensive - $2B each? - and very scarce, what
protects them from a terrorist attack of some sort on Guam or an
attack by another country with an air force and/or missiles?

Very efficent and armed Security forces. and a few signs.


Do you agree that mainly parking these birds in the American
Midwest was chosen to maximize their ability to fly anywhere in the
world with the most optimum time as well as protect them (hopefull)
from attack?

makes sense to me.. long way from the coast ( and missiles), in the
heartland. away from a major population centers. same reason missile
fields were once placed there....


Whatever, have a great Saturday, John. I've learned a lot from you
about these planes.

"HEMI-Powered" wrote in n
Why cadmium-free tools? would there be a weird electrolytic
reaction or something if cadmium came in contact with the paint?


traces of cadmium left on the bolts caused the heads of the bolts to
break off when, the planes/engines got hot...
remember these planes suffered the heat of friction of the air.
the pilots were reported to warm their food by holding it close to the
windscreens.


I must've missed your first mention of this book. Could you
please repeat the title as well as the author so I can make a
note go to the library?

Skunk Works by Ben Rich & Leo Janos
ISNB 0-316-74330-5

Do you foresee anything on the horizon for a high altitude, maybe
stealthy, high speed air breathing aircraft to be developed
especially for intelligence gathering to replace the Blackbird?



IMHO:
No, but believe me, I am FAR from an expert, FAR, FAR...
I just follow . what I can find, and research and read much... :-)

"HEMI-Powered" wrote in n No actually, the main reason for
the hangers is protection
from
the rain. Strange as it may seem..
the water is a major concern for the B-2's surfaces.. will
look up the article..

Whatever, have a great Saturday, John. I've learned a lot from you
about these planes.



My pleasure,,,
BTW: the B-2 crash at ANDERSEN AIR FORCE BASE, Guam
was due to water in several of the air-data sensors
causeing the flight control computers to get bad data..

"HEMI-Powered" wrote in
So, if these very expensive - $2B each? - and very scarce, what
protects them from a terrorist attack of some sort on Guam


also the B-2 has been deployed on a short term basis to Australia
as well..(more or less a training operation)