Why nitrogen?

"B A R R Y" wrote in message
...
Vaughn Simon wrote:
"Robert M. Gary" wrote in message
...
I just got new tires for my wife's car. They're usnig Nitrogen too.
They put green caps on the valve steam to show its not air.

Yes, those green caps have proven to be much better at keeping the
snake oil inside the tire where it belongs.

On a side note...

- I learned a few years back that the CAP on a Schrader valve (the common
tire valve) is the PRIMARY seal. No cap, no promise of a good seal from
the valve.

- Green valves on bicycles mean the tire is "Slimed", and has a fiber /
goop sealant.

- Nitrogen DOES leak less than air, and is dryer than most compressed air.
While it isn't worth $59.95, some really good tire shops, and places like
Costco, provide it for free.

CO2, commonly used to quickly repair bicycle flats on the road, leaks much
faster than air!

- Anyone who's ever had an ice chunk in a tire can appreciate a "drier"
fill...

CO2 also has wildly varying pressures with changes in temperature, and he
effect is worse at higher pressures. Of course, the same was true of the
various forms of Freon, which were previously used in canned quick repair
kits.

Peter

"Peter Dohm" wrote in
:

"Bertie the Bunyip" wrote in message
...
"Viperdoc" wrote in
:


So, the O2 fueled an already existing fire or caused it?


I suspect that pumping the oxygen into the system somehow started
the fi it probably is a new definition for the term "hot start"


Mm, nice.

You heard about this?

http://www.gadling.com/2007/12/16/qu...-fills-oxygen-
tan
ks- with-nitrogen/

Sounds worse than it was, but still....

Bertie

It appears that they were lucky and the oxygen was'nt needed; but it
does remind me of some of the speculation surrunding the Paine Stewart
case. Two hypotheses around my local airport were that 1) the tank
was inadvertantly filled with nitrogen or 2) that someone misread the
labeling on the regulator on/off handle--which is counterintuitively
labeled with "on" or "off" and arrows pointing which direction to turn
the knob for the desired result. I don't recall whether the case was
ever fully resolved; but a lot of pilots found a couple of areas
worthy of their maximum vigilance!

Moe likely was they passed out before they even realised they were in
trouble on that one. More easily done than I'd certainly expect.


Bertie

"Peter Dohm" wrote in
:

"JGalban via AviationKB.com" u32749@uwe wrote in message
news:8a4950eac1beb@uwe...
Peter Dohm wrote:
The only difference that would make nitrogen seen really beneficial
to me would be in the case of an aircraft which is kept hangared and
seldom operated. Then, if the tire threads last a number of years,
and the tires are sheltered from UV radiation, the inert nature of
the nitrogen could be usefull.


In theory, perhaps. In practice, tires oxidize from the outside as
well
as
the inside. I've noticed that every time I've bought expensive,
long-life tires, they have to be chucked because the sidewalls are
rotting, even though
the tread is still good. It's not just air, but pollutants
(particularly in
the cities). Ozone, a common urban pollutant, is particularly bad
for tires.

John Galban=====N4BQ (PA28-180)

Ordinarily, I would just let this slide; but since the greenies have
decided that CO2 (which is nature's means of recycling oxygen) and O3
(which is nature's cleanser of the atmosphere) are "pollutants"
according to the strange reasoning of their adled brains,



Here is an explanation for you.


If you find it too difficult to understand I'll have a look around for
the Litle Golden Book of Wonder version for you.



http://earthguide.ucsd.edu/globalcha...arming/03.html



Bertie

"Viperdoc" wrote in message
...
Bertie:

I find this hard to swallow, and I doubt that oxygen (at 20% of air),
regardless of pressure, is going to cause a detonation in an oleo. Just
like in a tire, the percentage of oxygen remains the same, so its ability
to support combustion also remains the same. Now, the increased oxygen
pressure might slightly increase the risk of corrosion, but we are not
talking orders of magnitude higher compared to ambient. At least this is
my understanding as I recall from being a chemistry undergrad and grad
student.

The more I hear about this, the more I think it's an old wive's tale.

Anway, what did you think of Anthony's claim"it's not me?" What a moron.

About all that I know on the reactivity subject is by inferance from the
assertion that our own need for suplemental oxygen at altitude is based on
partial pressure. On that basis, it seems to make a sort of sense, even
though it would require a *lot* of pressure and might also require the oil
in the strut to be partially vaporized--possibly during the early stages of
the rebound after the struts were vigorously compressed.

In the case of light plane tires, I agree with you that really dry air
should work well enough to make the issue trivial. But, if you need
nitrogen for any other reason, it is the cheapest thing that I know of in an
L bottle or larger and using it in the tires may be essentially
free--because you may have to pay rental on the tanks if they are not
refilled at a prescribed interval.

Peter

"Peter Dohm" wrote

It appears that they were lucky and the oxygen was'nt needed; but it does
remind me of some of the speculation surrunding the Paine Stewart case.
Two hypotheses around my local airport were that 1) the tank was
inadvertantly filled with nitrogen or 2) that someone misread the labeling
on the regulator on/off handle--which is counterintuitively labeled with
"on" or "off" and arrows pointing which direction to turn the knob for the
desired result. I don't recall whether the case was ever fully resolved;
but a lot of pilots found a couple of areas worthy of their maximum
vigilance!

Learjets don't use bottled oxygen; they have pressurized air from the
engines.

The fact that it was level and on autopilot would suggest that they did not
have a problem with the pressurization system that was noticed, that would
have caused them to try to go onto the bottled oxygen.
--
Jim in NC

"Bertie the Bunyip" wrote in message
...
"Peter Dohm" wrote in
:

"JGalban via AviationKB.com" u32749@uwe wrote in message
news:8a4950eac1beb@uwe...
Peter Dohm wrote:
The only difference that would make nitrogen seen really beneficial
to me would be in the case of an aircraft which is kept hangared and
seldom operated. Then, if the tire threads last a number of years,
and the tires are sheltered from UV radiation, the inert nature of
the nitrogen could be usefull.


In theory, perhaps. In practice, tires oxidize from the outside as
well
as
the inside. I've noticed that every time I've bought expensive,
long-life tires, they have to be chucked because the sidewalls are
rotting, even though
the tread is still good. It's not just air, but pollutants
(particularly in
the cities). Ozone, a common urban pollutant, is particularly bad
for tires.

John Galban=====N4BQ (PA28-180)

Ordinarily, I would just let this slide; but since the greenies have
decided that CO2 (which is nature's means of recycling oxygen) and O3
(which is nature's cleanser of the atmosphere) are "pollutants"
according to the strange reasoning of their adled brains,



Here is an explanation for you.


If you find it too difficult to understand I'll have a look around for
the Litle Golden Book of Wonder version for you.



http://earthguide.ucsd.edu/globalcha...arming/03.html



Bertie

You are too kind!

BTW, it did make a good case for the expansion of nuclear power--which I
have long favored.

Peter

"Morgans" wrote in
:


"Peter Dohm" wrote

It appears that they were lucky and the oxygen was'nt needed; but it
does remind me of some of the speculation surrunding the Paine
Stewart case. Two hypotheses around my local airport were that 1) the
tank was inadvertantly filled with nitrogen or 2) that someone
misread the labeling on the regulator on/off handle--which is
counterintuitively labeled with "on" or "off" and arrows pointing
which direction to turn the knob for the desired result. I don't
recall whether the case was ever fully resolved; but a lot of pilots
found a couple of areas worthy of their maximum vigilance!

Learjets don't use bottled oxygen; they have pressurized air from the
engines.



Bwawhahwhahwhahhwhahwhahwhahwhahwhahwhahwhahwhahhw !



The fact that it was level and on autopilot would suggest that they
did not have a problem with the pressurization system that was
noticed, that would have caused them to try to go onto the bottled
oxygen.


Wow, you don't know anything about airplanes, do you?

An autoflight system will happily level an airplane off all by itself.
Even an airplane with no alt intercpet and no autothrottle will
eventually settle down at an altitude.


Bertie

"Bertie the Bunyip" wrote in message
...
"Peter Dohm" wrote in
:

"Bertie the Bunyip" wrote in message
...
"Viperdoc" wrote in
:


So, the O2 fueled an already existing fire or caused it?


I suspect that pumping the oxygen into the system somehow started
the fi it probably is a new definition for the term "hot start"


Mm, nice.

You heard about this?

http://www.gadling.com/2007/12/16/qu...-fills-oxygen-
tan
ks- with-nitrogen/

Sounds worse than it was, but still....

Bertie

It appears that they were lucky and the oxygen was'nt needed; but it
does remind me of some of the speculation surrunding the Paine Stewart
case. Two hypotheses around my local airport were that 1) the tank
was inadvertantly filled with nitrogen or 2) that someone misread the
labeling on the regulator on/off handle--which is counterintuitively
labeled with "on" or "off" and arrows pointing which direction to turn
the knob for the desired result. I don't recall whether the case was
ever fully resolved; but a lot of pilots found a couple of areas
worthy of their maximum vigilance!

Moe likely was they passed out before they even realised they were in
trouble on that one. More easily done than I'd certainly expect.


Bertie

That was also suggested, and could well be the real answer.

Peter

"Peter Dohm" wrote in news:csYzk.30660$kh2.574
@bignews3.bellsouth.net:

"Bertie the Bunyip" wrote in message
...
"Peter Dohm" wrote in
:

"JGalban via AviationKB.com" u32749@uwe wrote in message
news:8a4950eac1beb@uwe...
Peter Dohm wrote:
The only difference that would make nitrogen seen really beneficial
to me would be in the case of an aircraft which is kept hangared
and
seldom operated. Then, if the tire threads last a number of years,
and the tires are sheltered from UV radiation, the inert nature of
the nitrogen could be usefull.


In theory, perhaps. In practice, tires oxidize from the outside
as
well
as
the inside. I've noticed that every time I've bought expensive,
long-life tires, they have to be chucked because the sidewalls are
rotting, even though
the tread is still good. It's not just air, but pollutants
(particularly in
the cities). Ozone, a common urban pollutant, is particularly bad
for tires.

John Galban=====N4BQ (PA28-180)

Ordinarily, I would just let this slide; but since the greenies have
decided that CO2 (which is nature's means of recycling oxygen) and
O3
(which is nature's cleanser of the atmosphere) are "pollutants"
according to the strange reasoning of their adled brains,



Here is an explanation for you.


If you find it too difficult to understand I'll have a look around
for
the Litle Golden Book of Wonder version for you.



http://earthguide.ucsd.edu/globalcha...arming/03.html



Bertie

You are too kind!

BTW, it did make a good case for the expansion of nuclear power--which
I
have long favored.


No, it didn't.

Maybe if I find something with pictures for you.



Bertie

"Peter Dohm" wrote in news:csYzk.30661$kh2.3884
@bignews3.bellsouth.net:


"Bertie the Bunyip" wrote in message
...
"Peter Dohm" wrote in
:

"Bertie the Bunyip" wrote in message
...
"Viperdoc" wrote in
:


So, the O2 fueled an already existing fire or caused it?


I suspect that pumping the oxygen into the system somehow started
the fi it probably is a new definition for the term "hot start"


Mm, nice.

You heard about this?

http://www.gadling.com/2007/12/16/qu...-fills-oxygen-
tan
ks- with-nitrogen/

Sounds worse than it was, but still....

Bertie

It appears that they were lucky and the oxygen was'nt needed; but it
does remind me of some of the speculation surrunding the Paine
Stewart
case. Two hypotheses around my local airport were that 1) the tank
was inadvertantly filled with nitrogen or 2) that someone misread
the
labeling on the regulator on/off handle--which is counterintuitively
labeled with "on" or "off" and arrows pointing which direction to
turn
the knob for the desired result. I don't recall whether the case
was
ever fully resolved; but a lot of pilots found a couple of areas
worthy of their maximum vigilance!

Moe likely was they passed out before they even realised they were in
trouble on that one. More easily done than I'd certainly expect.


Bertie

That was also suggested, and could well be the real answer.


Doesn't really matter. It's done and the only thing that matters is that
all the possibilities are looked at and equipment and training are
geared towards avoiding a repetition of the accident. Easier said than
done.


Bertie