Los Angeles radio tower crash kills 2

"James Robinson" wrote in message
...
PJ Hunt wrote:

Well I can't answer that question with 100% certainty but I do know the
Fullerton Airport was founded in the late 20's, and an educated guess
would
be that KFI wasn't around at that time.

Anyone here know when the tower was erected?


1948


I have a San Diego sectional dated August 12, 1943. It depicts radio
station KFI by call letters and frequency at the present-day location of the
tower. There had to be a tower of some kind there prior to 1948.

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote:

"James Robinson" wrote in message
...
PJ Hunt wrote:

Well I can't answer that question with 100% certainty but I do know the
Fullerton Airport was founded in the late 20's, and an educated guess
would
be that KFI wasn't around at that time.

Anyone here know when the tower was erected?


1948


I have a San Diego sectional dated August 12, 1943. It depicts radio
station KFI by call letters and frequency at the present-day location of the
tower. There had to be a tower of some kind there prior to 1948.

KFI relocated to the present site from LA in 1931 under the "clear
channel" concept. (Not to be confused with the company of the same name,
clear channel originally meant that they were the only station on a
particular frequency in the entire country, and could broadcast at very
high power.) They were the first 50kW station on the west coast.

They originally had a pair of smaller towers, about 400' high, which had
the antenna strung between. The higher full radiating 750' tower was
built in 1947/48. They also have a secondary 250' tower. I don't know
when it was built.

"PJ Hunt" wrote in message
...

Wow, I just checked the KFI website and it say's they started in 1922 in
some guys garage with a 50 watt transmitter. Man I knew that KFI had been
around for a long time but I didn't expect it to have been that long.
That's pretty amazing.

The website didn't say when the tower at Fullerton was erected though.

It's an interesting issue. If the tower was there first, why would they
put an airport so close to it?

Now I'm really curious which came first.


I have a San Diego sectional dated August 12, 1943. It depicts radio
station KFI by call letters and frequency at the present-day location of the
tower. The airport is depicted as a marked auxiliary field only by number;
03607.

A 1937 airport directory lists Fullerton as a municipal airport three miles
west of the city. It had two oiled runways at that time; 900' by 150' N/S
and 1,750' by 200'-300' E/W. It also says the entire field was available.

"Morgans" wrote in message
...

Right, but the penalty for flying a pattern a bit too big should not be
death.


No, but the penalty for being unaware of obstructions can be. This tower is
charted and is mentioned in the Airport/Facility Directory.

"Larry Dighera" wrote in message
...

The KFI transmitter tower was erected in Spring 1947 and the Fullerton
airport substantially earlier, officially 1927:


Radio station KFI is depicted on the 1943 sectional in the location of the
present day tower. It appears the tower erected in 1947 replaced an earlier
tower.

On Tue, 21 Dec 2004 16:43:31 GMT, "Steven P. McNicoll"
wrote in
. net::


"Larry Dighera" wrote in message
.. .

The KFI transmitter tower was erected in Spring 1947 and the Fullerton
airport substantially earlier, officially 1927:


Radio station KFI is depicted on the 1943 sectional in the location of the
present day tower. It appears the tower erected in 1947 replaced an earlier
tower.


Apparently, the tower erected in 1947 effectively doubled the height
of the former transmitter towers. In any event, the Fullerton Airport
was officially opened in 1927, and predates the 780' KFI tower by two
decades.

C Kingsbury wrote:
Try flying a tight pattern when you're #7 following a Learjet. At a very
busy field you often have no choice. Up here in Boston you'll often find
yourself on extended downwind for Rwy 29 at Bedford, which means you need to
stay down low in order to remain under Logan's Class B. No big towers at
pattern altitude, though.


Colin,
Last week the manager of Hanscom Tower spoke at the Hanscom Aeroclub
safety meeting (and holiday party :-) He said that he cannot understand
why spamcan pilots insist on making huge patterns. He prefers that we
make tighter patterns, where the controllers can keep us in sight, and
we don't take forever to come around, especially the Katana pilots.
After saying this he concluded with "Katanas... I don't know why the
good lord found it necessary to create Katanas." Or something to that
effect :-)

Having said all that, the controllers will sequence and space you as
they see fit, and that sometimes means larger patterns and goofball
maneuvering (like 360's and s-turns. He prefers 360's). He admitted
that turbines are given priority as a policy, but that we can do things
to make the controller's lives easier and we can all play nice together
if we stay aware and professional. Smaller patterns can help in this
regard.

The most important take away from that meeting was his reply to the
question of where the responsibility lies to stay away from Boston Class
B for planes being worked by Hanscom tower. The bottom line is that if
a controller is working you, then they are responsible for keeping you
away from Class B, or negotiating with Boston approach. If you bust
into Bravo airspace while in the Hanscom pattern, it's on Hanscom
Tower's head. His words were something to the effect of "if it comes to
it, we'll it it. It will be an operational error on our part." All
this is on video at the aeroclub :-) I'm less apprehensive about
pattern work at Hanscom now that I know that.

However, the other take away from the meeting was that if you think they
forgot you, or are giving you an instruction to do something you object
to, you'll help everyone out by speaking up. They're human and make
mistakes too, and it's ultimately YOUR butt on the line, not the
controller's.

-Aviv

"Larry Dighera" wrote in message
...

Apparently, the tower erected in 1947 effectively doubled the height
of the former transmitter towers. In any event, the Fullerton Airport
was officially opened in 1927, and predates the 780' KFI tower by two
decades.


But the radio station predates the official airport opening by five years.
I'd wager the airport has changed significantly from the day it opened, just
as KFI has.

Here's a site that details a tour of the transmitter:

http://www.qsl.net/ad7db/kfi.html

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote:

"Larry Dighera" wrote:

In any event, the Fullerton Airport was officially opened in
1927, and predates the 780' KFI tower by two decades.

But the radio station predates the official airport opening by five years.
I'd wager the airport has changed significantly from the day it opened, just
as KFI has.

Actually, while KFI was in existence in the 1920s, it only moved to the
current site in 1931.

On Tue, 21 Dec 2004 17:13:32 GMT, "Steven P. McNicoll"
wrote in
et::


"Larry Dighera" wrote in message
.. .

Apparently, the tower erected in 1947 effectively doubled the height
of the former transmitter towers. In any event, the Fullerton Airport
was officially opened in 1927, and predates the 780' KFI tower by two
decades.


But the radio station predates the official airport opening by five years.
I'd wager the airport has changed significantly from the day it opened, just
as KFI has.

Here's a site that details a tour of the transmitter:

http://www.qsl.net/ad7db/kfi.html


That's an interesting link. Thanks.

Here's another that indicates that the KFI transmitter was located at
1000 S. Hope St, Los Angeles until the 50,000 watt transmitter was
installed in Buena Park in 1931 (four years after Fullerton Airport
was formally established):

http://www.oldradio.com/archives/stations/LA/kfipix.htm