NBC news stupidity

C J Campbell wrote:

"B2431" wrote in message
...

From: Mark Hickey
Date: 8/13/2004 5:07 PM Central Daylight Time
Message-id:

(B2431) wrote:


Let's take this out of aviation for a moment. If you were at a

stoplight

and

some guy opened your passenger door and hopped in then produced a box

cutter

and said "Hi, I'm from NBC and I just proved how easy it is to car jack"

you

would still feel threatened.

I just had a mental picture of the driver saying "Hi, I'm from the NRA
and I just proved how easy it is for this here 9mm to blow a few nice
holes in a carjacker... sorry about the shirt and all..."

Mark Hickey

9mm? You heathen!! I carry a 45.


Hey, I carry a 9mm and I aint no lady neither. A .45 is just too fat and
heavy. I keep looking at those Taurus Total Titanium guns, though.



Nah, my Colt Series 80 is nice and trim. A double stack .45 is fat, but
not ones designed as God and John Browning intended.


Matt

"C J Campbell" wrote in message
...

Hey, I carry a 9mm and I aint no lady neither. A .45 is just too fat and
heavy.

C.J..........

Check out http://www.detonicsusa.com/index.html

Jeff Cooper, Guns & Ammo, 12/74

"This remarkable pistol is the smallest, lowest recoil single action .45
caliber semi-automatic in the world. The Detonics .45 is a premium quality
professional tool for the serious handgun expert and combat shooter. It is
capable of providing the brute force stopping power of the standard-sized
..45 in a size no larger than a snub-nosed .38, or "pocket" 9mm auto. The
Detonics .45 has an advanced mechanism which reduces the apparent recoil
remarkably below the full-sized .45. This awesomely powerful pistol is
smaller, more easily concealed, and has greater short/medium range rapid
fire accuracy than any single action .45 weapon available today. This
masterpiece of combat design is gaining recognition as the finest defensive
handgun in the world today."

Rich "That's *my* portable half-inch drill" S.

On Thu, 12 Aug 2004 22:48:41 -0400, "TaxSrv"
wrote:

"Orval Fairbairn" wrote:
I hope that the judge throws the book at them!

I think it's implied they were not arrested. What law did they
violate?

If media goes undercover to a used car dealer to show how buyers can
get screwed, you'd probably agree with that. If they go undercover to
an FBO under circumstances which were obviously suspicious, what's the
difference? The targeted auto dealer may be known to be sleazy, but
if the FBO had agreed to the charter, what adjective do they deserve?

You don't see the difference?

In the first the crew is not trying to break the law, they are
attempting to catch someone else breaking the law.. In the second they
are doing something illegal by carrying box cutters and other weapons
aboard. IOW they carried it too far. OTOH do you think they will give
GA a fair and unbiased report? Aren't they the ones who got caught
rigging the side mounted gas tanks to explode when all other attempts
failed in their "expose" of the "gas tank problem"?

There is nothing against the law attempting to charter the
plane/helicopter in and of itself, but they went beyond the law when
they actually had the weapons.

Now, when and if they ever air the "expose" of airport security do you
think the fact they were caught the first time they tried it will make
the news. You'd think this would have been turned into a high profile
incident to alert terrorists, "It ain't all that easy" and to ease the
general public's concerns. Instead I have seen no mention of it on
any news even after it was sent out by the AOPA. IOW, The Airport
Watch worked in this case and that to them isn't as newsworthy as
"News crew sneaks weapons aboard easily rented helicopter".

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

Fred F.

"GaryP" wrote:
...
Didn't the FBO agree to the charter, which is after all one of their
sources
of revenue, until they became suspicious of the passengers? ... What
possible parallel can you draw between the FBO and a crooked car
dealer?

I was implying a case where the FBO went ahead and flew them, without
the security awareness they should have. I don't agree with NBC's
judgment on the potential GA security threat, but this is only what
they were looking for, same as hidden camera looking for cockroaches
in a restaurant kitchen.

When they engage in an illegal activity, e.g. armed terrorist
suspects
attempting to bypass airport security, that is another.

You cited a crime whch doesn't exist, unless local law prohibits
carriage of even a Stanley utility knife onto this airport property.
That's the case if you do that at an air carrier airport, but only
past the security point, under federal law. If thery broke a law,
nothing yet on google news that says which one it was.

Illegal is illegal no matter what the motive.

Believe that's exactly correct. Criminal intent means only that the
person had or should have had knowledge he did something the law
forbids. So in the case of your college kid on a do-good mission, he
can be prosecuted and maybe was. Applies to media too, and they have
been at least arrested once as I recall. But gov't should think hard
about prosecuting media due to the 1st Amendment issue. We've shut
down selected media in Iraq and now are letting the Iraqis do it.
This is not the flower of a Middle East democracy Bush promised, and I
don't think we want to go near that stuff here.

And...if media could get an actual gun onto an airliner, wouldn't you
really want to know that? Gov't knows the small but real probability
it's airport security measures can be breached--they quietly test it.
Prosecuting media who try to find out what they will never tell us
doesn't sound good to me.

F--

On Fri, 13 Aug 2004 22:51:28 -0400, Matt Whiting
wrote:

B2431 wrote:

From: Mark Hickey
Date: 8/13/2004 5:07 PM Central Daylight Time
Message-id:

(B2431) wrote:


Let's take this out of aviation for a moment. If you were at a stoplight

and

some guy opened your passenger door and hopped in then produced a box cutter
and said "Hi, I'm from NBC and I just proved how easy it is to car jack" you
would still feel threatened.

I just had a mental picture of the driver saying "Hi, I'm from the NRA
and I just proved how easy it is for this here 9mm to blow a few nice
holes in a carjacker... sorry about the shirt and all..."

Mark Hickey


9mm? You heathen!! I carry a 45.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

The example was obviously a female NRA member. I also carry a .45 or a
.44 Mag. The .44 is a little unwieldly though in tight quarters, but I
do like the extra firepower and it is more accurate than my .45. I
imagine the muzzle blast in a cockpit would be truly impressive. You

9mm with HP "Hydra-shok"

Oh, you'd be able to hear again... In a couple of hours to a couple of
days although the ringing in your ears my stay for the rest of your
life. :-)) Anything other than small caliber inside a confined space
is deafening and I mean that literally.

wouldn't even have to hit the terrorist to put him out of commission.

Or the pilot for that matter. The 45 has relatively low chamber and
muzzle pressure, but the 44 has considerably higher pressures and
attendant noise.

I once had a S&W 22 cal Remington Jet. It's a 357 necked to 22. As I
recall, cylinder pressure was on the order of 44,000 PSI. The muzzle
blast and flash were something to behold. The gas leakage between the
cylinder and muzzle was like a knife that could cut through some
pretty substantial materials. BTW it was the only pistol I ever owned
that could obscure the target with the muzzle flash.

Like many things, I wish I still had that thing. Not that I'd find any
practical use for it. The last box of ammo I saw had a price of over
$50 US and I believe the revolver was at $1700 US.

It would both deafen and blind an attacker, but you'd want to remember
to roll the window down on your side before firing. :-))

The old Cherokee I used to fly had one 45 cal bullet hole and two more
glancing dents. Drive-by at the FBO one night.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com


Matt

On Fri, 13 Aug 2004 20:29:43 -0700, "Rich S."
wrote:

"Matt Whiting" wrote in message
...
The example was obviously a female NRA member. I also carry a .45 or a
.44 Mag. The .44 is a little unwieldly though in tight quarters, but I
do like the extra firepower and it is more accurate than my .45. I
imagine the muzzle blast in a cockpit would be truly impressive. You
wouldn't even have to hit the terrorist to put him out of commission.


I had a Ruger .30 carbine revolver with a loose cylinder/barrel gap. The
crack of the report would kill a crow at thirty feet and the side blast from
the cylinder would blow the hats off the guys shooting at the stations to
your left and right.

Rich "The crow was old and had a heart condition" S.

Back in "The old Days" I attended a turkey shoot at the Ithica Gun
Club (Ithica MI). One gunsmith had built up a revolver based on the
Colt Peacemaker. The only difference which made the thing memorable
was the cartridge. It was chambered for the 45-70. That cylinder was
huge. For that matter so was the revolver. Not that the 45-70 makes a
practical pistol cartridge. Half the powder was still unburned when
it went out the muzzle in a very spectacular fashion. Just think of
the attention on the firing like when you start slipping those huge
cartridges into the cylinder. :-))

Man, talk about thread drift.
Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

On 14 Aug 2004 03:39:47 GMT, (B2431) wrote:

From: Matt Whiting
Date: 8/13/2004 9:51 PM Central Daylight Time
Message-id:

B2431 wrote:

From: Mark Hickey
Date: 8/13/2004 5:07 PM Central Daylight Time
Message-id:

(B2431) wrote:


Let's take this out of aviation for a moment. If you were at a stoplight

and

some guy opened your passenger door and hopped in then produced a box
cutter
and said "Hi, I'm from NBC and I just proved how easy it is to car jack"
you
would still feel threatened.

I just had a mental picture of the driver saying "Hi, I'm from the NRA
and I just proved how easy it is for this here 9mm to blow a few nice
holes in a carjacker... sorry about the shirt and all..."

Mark Hickey


9mm? You heathen!! I carry a 45.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

The example was obviously a female NRA member. I also carry a .45 or a
.44 Mag. The .44 is a little unwieldly though in tight quarters, but I
do like the extra firepower and it is more accurate than my .45. I
imagine the muzzle blast in a cockpit would be truly impressive. You
wouldn't even have to hit the terrorist to put him out of commission.


Matt

I think it should be legal to fire 3 warning shots to the head.

You remember the old story...?
Skipping most: When interviewed after a stand off, the reporter asked
the sheriff; "I understand that several officers were wounded during
the firefight, but in the end the fugitive committed suicide rather
than surrender?" The old sheriff replied, "Yup, shot 37 times in the
head. Worst case of suicide I ever saw."

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

In article , C J Campbell says...

Why would I believe anything that NBC has to say about a car dealer? These
are the guys who tried to prove that Chevy trucks were dangerous by using
fireworks to cause the gas tanks to explode.

or shoot watermelons with a hand gun with hollow points to show it explode
because the AK with FMJ ammo didn't do anything but produce a puncture hole.
Credibility they got the same credibility as zoom ,jaun and ANN .I don't believe
any of them :-)

See ya

Chuck (gun control is hitting what your aiming at) S

On Sat, 14 Aug 2004 06:40:32 -0700, "C J Campbell"
wrote:


"B2431" wrote in message
...
From: Mark Hickey
Date: 8/13/2004 5:07 PM Central Daylight Time
Message-id:

(B2431) wrote:

Let's take this out of aviation for a moment. If you were at a
stoplight
and
some guy opened your passenger door and hopped in then produced a box
cutter
and said "Hi, I'm from NBC and I just proved how easy it is to car jack"
you
would still feel threatened.

I just had a mental picture of the driver saying "Hi, I'm from the NRA
and I just proved how easy it is for this here 9mm to blow a few nice
holes in a carjacker... sorry about the shirt and all..."

Mark Hickey

9mm? You heathen!! I carry a 45.

Hey, I carry a 9mm and I aint no lady neither. A .45 is just too fat and
heavy. I keep looking at those Taurus Total Titanium guns, though.

As I recall those are DAOs too. I always said I never wanted a DAO
until I got the Glock.

Wayyy back when I was a "gun runner" and Dudley's T-Rex was still a
hatchling, I had a little Charter Arms, 5 shot 38 special. You
didn't need a large hand to completely cover it. When used with +P, or
worse yet ++P loads that little sucker would darn near unhinge your
wrist. It was more uncomfortable to shoot than any 44 mag I ever shot.
Course the warning to not use +P, loads was right on the box. :-))
Worked real well with hollow base wad cutters loaded backwards. At
least to about 15 feet which was probably as good as you could do with
match loads in that little sucker.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

On Fri, 13 Aug 2004 06:47:17 -0700, Mark Hickey
wrote:

Roger Halstead wrote:

On Thu, 12 Aug 2004 22:18:54 GMT, "Cy Galley"
wrote:

Maybe, just maybe they will treat them like any one else trying the
same stunt. They had potential weapons and could easily be
infiltrators into the stations.

They should be held with no bail on federal charges, and taken to
court. Let the network defend them and if necessary pay the fines and
let the bosses serve the time as accomplices for planning the jobs.

I agree with the "throw the book at them". They certainly would were
it some student or individual trying to show a weakness in the system.
Besides any terrorist could claim they were just trying to expose any
weaknesses.

Not to mention that dragging them kicking and screaming through the
system would accomplish two important things.

One, it would probably be picked up by OTHER networks, thereby
promoting the reality that the GA industry is watching out for itself,
and two, it would annoy NBC.

And three it would send a very important message to potential
hijackers of GA aircraft.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

Mark Hickey