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#31
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FAI (IGC) rules for US Club Class Nationals - Petition
I encourage you to review the rules. IGC is LESS complex,simpler and easier to understand. IGC rules are 15,091 words long compared to 25,804 (US rules).
http://www.fai.org/igc-documents Go to Sporting Code Section 3 Annex A 1. No 1-34s, etc. so we don't have to worry about low performance gliders when task setting. YES 2. No LS-6s, Venti and ASW-20Bs&Cs. No LS-6 or Venti. ASW-20B&Cs HAVE BEEN allowed. They are specifically excluded in Argentina at the next WGC. 3. No speed or altitude limits prior to the start. Altitude limits are up to CD discretion, similar to US Rules. 4. Much more emphasis on ATs. YES. There are ONLY Racing Tasks (AT) and Assigned Area Tasks. 50/50 seems to be the philosophy. 5. Score everything according to FAI rules. YES. See scoring calculations on page 31 & 32 of FAI SC3a rules. Sean Franke |
#32
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FAI (IGC) rules for US Club Class Nationals - Petition
So, with altitude limits you get VNE dives to the line. Sometimes out of the clouds. Fun stuff. Advocates have a point, if you want to go do this stuff at the worlds, practicing at home will help a lot. 8.7 LIST OF APPROVED PENALTIES, page 34 Cloud flying: 100pts first offense, day disqual - second offense, Disqualification - max penalty. The tactical implications of the FAI scoring formula are subtle and deep. There are several analyses of the required strategies floating around the US team. If we go there, be prepared to play a very different tactical game. The question for US pilots: do the 99% of you who are not going to the worlds really want to invest a lot to learning to play these games? You're going to be landing out a lot more often btw. John Cochrane Keep in mind we are not proposing changing existing US Classes. We are hoping to create a new racing class and positive experience NOT available in the US. It is ONE class. Give US pilots a choice. Seeing how the petition is developing, it's clear a strong voice is growing. I think the picture painted above about IGC rules is a bit DRAMATIC. I certainly didn't experience that in Prievidza 2010 WGC. I think safety and successful tasking varies according to contest management. That is no different in the US. Advocates have a point: if you want to learn to play this game it takes years of practice. The question for US pilots: do the 99% of you who are not going to the worlds really want to invest a lot to learning to play these games? Interesting comment. Besides a refreshing alternative do you think this new class could serve as training for US Team pilots? Sean Franke |
#34
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FAI (IGC) rules for US Club Class Nationals - Petition
On Tuesday, November 27, 2012 3:54:51 PM UTC-8, Richard Walters wrote:
Let's not forget what I consider the most unfair IGC CC rule of all- no actual weight based handicapping. So if I fly a Discus b at 825 pounds and BB flies a Discus a at 700 pounds, we fly with the same handicap. I would have a one pound PSF wing loading advantage, which would be helpful anywhere but the maybe the UK. Big, heavy guys take note. I weigh 100 kg. BB considerably less. Richard Walters The reference weight for Discus a & b is 367 kg. Every 10 kg incurs a handicap increase of 0,005. Yes, there can be a wing loading difference but it's accounted for in the handicap. Copied from current handicap list: "The handicap is based on the performance at the New IGC Reference Mass. If a glider is flown at a mass not exceeding this reference mass it can be considered as operated within legal mass limits. Where a glider is flown at a higher mass by necessity, the pilot will have to provide documentation to prove that his glider is still operated within legal mass limits and the handicap will be increased by 0,005 for each 10 kg or part thereof that the glider exceeds the reference mass. However the wing loading may in no case exceed 38 kg/m2. In addition the handicap may in no case exceed 1,09." Sean Franke |
#35
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FAI (IGC) rules for US Club Class Nationals - Petition
On Tuesday, 20 November 2012 07:42:32 UTC-7, wrote:
The U.S. is moving towards recognizing the Club Class in 2013. A poll has been created to validate interest in establishing FAI (IGC) rules / tasking philosophy in this new class. If approved the U.S. Club Class would be the ONLY U.S. racing class under FAI (IGC) racing rules. Please sign the petition IF YOU are interested in supporting or flying US Club Class under FAI (IGC) rules / tasking philosophy. In the optional personal comment section please enter (if applicable): 1. Your position on the US seeding list. 2. If you have access to or own a Club Class glider, what type. 3. If you are familiar with IGC rules and prefer those rules over US rules. 4. If you would financially or otherwise support development of the US Club Class under FAI (IGC) rules. 5. If you don't currently fly US contests but would start flying US Club Class under FAI (IGC) rules. 6. If you currently fly US contests (Standard, Open, 15m, 18m or Sports) and are interested in flying US Club Class under FAI (IGC) rules. 7. Any other comments welcome! Link to petition: http://www.thepetitionsite.com/262/8...out-exception/ Sean Franke US Club Class Team Member Sean, how are you proposing to score these contests? Are you going to use SeeYou? Ron Gleason |
#36
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FAI (IGC) rules for US Club Class Nationals - Petition
On Tuesday, November 27, 2012 4:31:05 PM UTC-8, Ron Gleason wrote:
On Tuesday, 20 November 2012 07:42:32 UTC-7, wrote: The U.S. is moving towards recognizing the Club Class in 2013. A poll has been created to validate interest in establishing FAI (IGC) rules / tasking philosophy in this new class. If approved the U.S. Club Class would be the ONLY U.S. racing class under FAI (IGC) racing rules. Please sign the petition IF YOU are interested in supporting or flying US Club Class under FAI (IGC) rules / tasking philosophy. In the optional personal comment section please enter (if applicable): 1. Your position on the US seeding list. 2. If you have access to or own a Club Class glider, what type. 3. If you are familiar with IGC rules and prefer those rules over US rules. 4. If you would financially or otherwise support development of the US Club Class under FAI (IGC) rules. 5. If you don't currently fly US contests but would start flying US Club Class under FAI (IGC) rules. 6. If you currently fly US contests (Standard, Open, 15m, 18m or Sports) and are interested in flying US Club Class under FAI (IGC) rules. 7. Any other comments welcome! Link to petition: http://www.thepetitionsite.com/262/8...out-exception/ Sean Franke US Club Class Team Member Sean, how are you proposing to score these contests? Are you going to use SeeYou? Ron Gleason SeeYou is popular and works well. I propose using SeeYou unless a better solution is brought up. Sean Franke |
#37
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FAI (IGC) rules for US Club Class Nationals - Petition
Great conversation developing here!
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#38
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FAI (IGC) rules for US Club Class Nationals - Petition
Let's not forget what I consider the most unfair IGC CC rule of
all- no actual weight based handicapping. So if I fly a Discus b at 825 pounds and BB flies a Discus a at 700 pounds, we fly with the same handicap. I would have a one pound PSF wing loading advantage, which would be helpful anywhere but the maybe the UK. Big, heavy guys take note. I weigh 100 kg. BB considerably less. Richard Walters At 23:13 27 November 2012, wrote: I encourage you to review the rules. IGC is LESS complex,simpler and easier to understand. IGC rules are 15,091 words long compared to 25,804 (US rules). http://www.fai.org/igc-documents Go to Sporting Code Section 3 Annex A 1. No 1-34s, etc. so we don't have to worry about low performance gliders when task setting. YES 2. No LS-6s, Venti and ASW-20Bs&Cs. No LS-6 or Venti. ASW-20B&Cs HAVE BEEN allowed. They are specifically excluded in Argentina at the next WGC. 3. No speed or altitude limits prior to the start. Altitude limits are up to CD discretion, similar to US Rules. 4. Much more emphasis on ATs. YES. There are ONLY Racing Tasks (AT) and Assigned Area Tasks. 50/50 seems to be the philosophy. 5. Score everything according to FAI rules. YES. See scoring calculations on page 31 & 32 of FAI SC3a rules. Sean Franke |
#39
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FAI (IGC) rules for US Club Class Nationals - Petition
Let's not forget what I consider the most unfair IGC CC rule of
all- no actual weight based handicapping. So if I fly a Discus b at 825 pounds and BB flies a Discus a at 700 pounds, we fly with the same handicap. I would have a one pound PSF wing loading advantage, which would be helpful anywhere but the maybe the UK. Big, heavy guys take note. I weigh 100 kg. BB considerably less. Richard Walters At 23:13 27 November 2012, wrote: I encourage you to review the rules. IGC is LESS complex,simpler and easier to understand. IGC rules are 15,091 words long compared to 25,804 (US rules). http://www.fai.org/igc-documents Go to Sporting Code Section 3 Annex A 1. No 1-34s, etc. so we don't have to worry about low performance gliders when task setting. YES 2. No LS-6s, Venti and ASW-20Bs&Cs. No LS-6 or Venti. ASW-20B&Cs HAVE BEEN allowed. They are specifically excluded in Argentina at the next WGC. 3. No speed or altitude limits prior to the start. Altitude limits are up to CD discretion, similar to US Rules. 4. Much more emphasis on ATs. YES. There are ONLY Racing Tasks (AT) and Assigned Area Tasks. 50/50 seems to be the philosophy. 5. Score everything according to FAI rules. YES. See scoring calculations on page 31 & 32 of FAI SC3a rules. Sean Franke |
#40
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FAI (IGC) rules for US Club Class Nationals - Petition
Let's not forget what I consider the most unfair IGC CC rule of
all- no actual weight based handicapping. So if I fly a Discus b at 825 pounds and BB flies a Discus a at 700 pounds, we fly with the same handicap. I would have a one pound PSF wing loading advantage, which would be helpful anywhere but the maybe the UK. Big, heavy guys take note. I weigh 100 kg. BB considerably less. Richard Walters At 23:13 27 November 2012, wrote: I encourage you to review the rules. IGC is LESS complex,simpler and easier to understand. IGC rules are 15,091 words long compared to 25,804 (US rules). http://www.fai.org/igc-documents Go to Sporting Code Section 3 Annex A 1. No 1-34s, etc. so we don't have to worry about low performance gliders when task setting. YES 2. No LS-6s, Venti and ASW-20Bs&Cs. No LS-6 or Venti. ASW-20B&Cs HAVE BEEN allowed. They are specifically excluded in Argentina at the next WGC. 3. No speed or altitude limits prior to the start. Altitude limits are up to CD discretion, similar to US Rules. 4. Much more emphasis on ATs. YES. There are ONLY Racing Tasks (AT) and Assigned Area Tasks. 50/50 seems to be the philosophy. 5. Score everything according to FAI rules. YES. See scoring calculations on page 31 & 32 of FAI SC3a rules. Sean Franke |
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