Va and negative g's & fun non-acrobatic maneuvers

Seriously, if someone has something to suggest that's fun and safe,
within normal operating range and category, please suggest. It's a
buddy's bday soon and he wants to go up. Again, I am not looking for
doing anything aerobatic.

From level flight at slow-normal cruise, with plenty of altitude to
spare (i.e 5000 AGL), pull the power back to idle and bank the thing
over to almost 60 degrees letting the nose fall over in a slow steep
banked 180 degree turn. Watch your airspeed and make sure it stays at
or below Va. Level out and then do it again in the opposite bank, to
make a big falling slow figure-8 pattern as you descend. Keep your
bank at or below 60 degrees and the nose down angle less than 30
degrees and you're still legal. Because you're not maintaining level
flight in the 60 deg banks, you're not really pulling any Gs in the
banks either. The most Gs you pull is when you level out after you're
done with the steep banks. Maybe 1.5 Gs at the most if you're sloppy
about it. One of my favorite "fun" things since you get a windshield
full of straight-down plus a wee bit of almost-zero-G feeling without
hardly any stress on the aircraft at all.

"One's Too Many" wrote in message
om...

Seriously, if someone has something to suggest that's fun and safe,
within normal operating range and category, please suggest. It's a
buddy's bday soon and he wants to go up. Again, I am not looking for
doing anything aerobatic.

From level flight at slow-normal cruise, with plenty of altitude to
spare (i.e 5000 AGL), pull the power back to idle and bank the thing
over to almost 60 degrees letting the nose fall over in a slow steep
banked 180 degree turn. Watch your airspeed and make sure it stays at
or below Va. Level out and then do it again in the opposite bank, to
make a big falling slow figure-8 pattern as you descend. Keep your
bank at or below 60 degrees and the nose down angle less than 30
degrees and you're still legal. Because you're not maintaining level
flight in the 60 deg banks, you're not really pulling any Gs in the
banks either. The most Gs you pull is when you level out after you're
done with the steep banks. Maybe 1.5 Gs at the most if you're sloppy
about it. One of my favorite "fun" things since you get a windshield
full of straight-down plus a wee bit of almost-zero-G feeling without
hardly any stress on the aircraft at all.

Got a ride in an L19 tow plane once. This is how they got down quick for
the next tow. What a hoot! One plop to the left and one to the right and
3,000 feet of altitude disappeared in a few seconds.

"darryl" wrote in message
m...
"Anyone" wrote in message
...
Get acro instruction in a Pitts, Decathlon, etc. Doing what you want in
a
172, while maybe possible, is dangerous and quite honestly, a little
sad.
It's like trying to race a Geo Metro. I've got nothing against the 172,
it's just not well suited for what you want. The FBO I rent from rents
a
Decathlon for $10/hr more than their SP's. I'm sure you can find one
for
about what you pay for the 172.

BTW - your comment "stall horn, give it good nudge forward on the
stick"...
a 172SP doesn't have a stick, it has a wheel. Sticks are for acro's, a
172
isn't an acro.




"Koopas Ly" wrote in message
om...
Me again,

Va seems to be only intended to protect against excessive positive
load factors. What about negative g's?

Can I find a Va for negative design load factors (-1.52 g) for the
C172SP anywhere?

Reason I am asking is that I want to try the "floating pencil" trick
next time I fly but I don't want to shove the stick fully forward for
fear of breaking something. I am not looking to induce negative g's,
only zero g's and zero lift. Any pointers on entry speed and power
settings? Is it easier to perform if you induce a gradual +1 g steep
climb similar to a departure stall maneuver, then upon hearing the
stall horn, give it good nudge forward on the stick? I've heard that
your airspeed may indicate well below stall, but again, your stall
speed does approach zero as your load factor goes to zero.

Likewise, would you prefer to pull 2 positive g's in a pull-up
maneuver or a, say, 60 deg. bank? Frankly, I am not too familiar with
the former so I might do something undesirable. Aside from my stall
speed going up to something like 68 kts. clean (Va ~ 100 kts), you'd
see your airspeed quickly dwindling while pulling up. I think it'd be
fruitless to add in power since heck, you're not maintaining altitude
and besides, you probably don't have any excess power anyway to do
that. Neither am I familiar with the mechanics of loops so it'd be
wiser to leave that alone. Perhaps the 60 deg. bank is more
reasonable to have some fun. Would you try to hold altitude with
backpressure and power or just leave the plane to dive and speed up in
the spiral, with a recovery before Vne? I think the maneuver would be
more innocuous with power-off a-la-emergency-descent style. Again,
I've never done a 60 deg. bank...so I should probably leave that alone
too until I try it with a passenger...oops..i mean CFI.

Seriously, if someone has something to suggest that's fun and safe,
within normal operating range and category, please suggest. It's a
buddy's bday soon and he wants to go up. Again, I am not looking for
doing anything aerobatic.

Alright, I can see the flames and derision coming from the mainland

May you have a peaceful week with no stress,
Alex

Aside from the 172 not being stressed for fooling around like this it
is a pain in the backside. Not quite like a truck, more like going
to a sports car race in a SUV. A good plane to get aero in would be
a 150 aerobat (did they make a 152 aerobat?) I'm assuming you've
been flying mostly Cessnas. The feel and controls will be familiar
and you will have to finesses it to get clean manuvers.
You can avoid the trouble of "taming a taildragger" and still learn
some good stuff and have some fun.
You can go for the Serious Iron later if you get addicted.
Darryl
46 Taylorcraft

You can avoid the trouble of "taming a taildragger"
It'll make him a better pilot if he learns. If he can't control the plane
well enough to land a taildragger he shouldn't be doing acro. Trikes are
for kids and wheels are for cars. Taildragger with a stick is the only way
to go.

'46 Taylorcraft - nice, very nice.

Paul Sengupta wrote:

People flying inverted usually manage to find dirt they never knew about.

Once they find it, they know about it, though. I hear that it seems to wind up
in the eyes.

George Patterson
Some people think they hear a call to the priesthood when what they really
hear is a tiny voice whispering "It's indoor work with no heavy lifting".

Paul Sengupta wrote:

He remarked that it wasn't quite so critical to get the nose down so quickly.

I didn't like stalls in my primary training. With the Cessna, you get the nose
a bit down, put the throttle in, get the carb heat off, and bring the flaps up.
I would slam the throttle forward with the palm of my hand, while getting the
carb heat off with my thumb. My instructor said it wasn't necessary to move that
fast.

After the third practice run for the day, she told me that she had recently had
a candidate who had been criticized by the examiner for not getting the plane
cleaned up rapidly enough. She said "When I send you over, I'm going to call him
up and say 'Have I got a candidate for you!'".

George Patterson
Some people think they hear a call to the priesthood when what they really
hear is a tiny voice whispering "It's indoor work with no heavy lifting".

"darryl" wrote in message
m...
Aside from the 172 not being stressed for fooling around like this it
is a pain in the backside.

A 60 degree turn and a 0g bunt?

Paul

For added effect use an aerobatic plane and bank to just over
the 90 degrees. Got my g-meter up to about 3 pulling out of
one of those.

Paul

"One's Too Many" wrote in message
om...
From level flight at slow-normal cruise, with plenty of altitude to
spare (i.e 5000 AGL), pull the power back to idle and bank the thing
over to almost 60 degrees letting the nose fall over in a slow steep
banked 180 degree turn. Watch your airspeed and make sure it stays at
or below Va. Level out and then do it again in the opposite bank, to
make a big falling slow figure-8 pattern as you descend. Keep your
bank at or below 60 degrees and the nose down angle less than 30
degrees and you're still legal. Because you're not maintaining level
flight in the 60 deg banks, you're not really pulling any Gs in the
banks either. The most Gs you pull is when you level out after you're
done with the steep banks. Maybe 1.5 Gs at the most if you're sloppy
about it. One of my favorite "fun" things since you get a windshield
full of straight-down plus a wee bit of almost-zero-G feeling without
hardly any stress on the aircraft at all.

Ever see the Americas Funniest Video where the camera shows two people in
the front seat of a small plane. The shadow is changing, but you can't tell
what they're up to untill the dog comes floating up out of the back seat,
does a quarter turn and floats up in between them.

It's hilarious.

mike regish

"Rich Stowell" wrote in message
om...
FAR 91.303, Aerobatic Flight, states in pertinent part:

"For the purposes of this section, aerobatic flight means an
intentional maneuver involving an abrupt change in an aircraft's
attitude, an abnormal attitude, or an abnormal acceleration, not
neccessary for normal flight."

In the context of the Cessna 172, it could be argued (especially by an
ornery FAA-type) that the "float the pencil" maneuver results in both
"an abnormal attitude" and an "abnormal acceleration," and is "not
necessary for normal flight."

What exactly constitutes an "aerobatic maneuver" is left open for
interpretation, and in the end depends on who's looking...

And while the reply below is good, it is debatable whether or not it
is the ONLY sensible one thus far. Given that the original poster has
never done this before, isn't it prudent to suggest he get some dual
in the particular maneuver before attempting it by himself, or worse,
attempting it for the first time with the plane loaded with someone
else's kids???

Rich
http://www.richstowell.com



Robert Moore wrote in message
.7...
(Dan Thomas) wrote

It can be done from cruise speed. Pull up into a shallow climb,
then start pushing forward, increasing pressure until the pencil
comes off the panel. It'll feel like negative G's but isn't. The
only stress on the airplane occurs when you pull out of the
shallow dive created by the maneuver. You don't have to get the
nose way up or down at all, and it doesn't require abrupt, or
anywhere near full, control inputs. Kids love it.

The ONLY sensible post in this whole thread! I "float" stuff with
all of my new students, makes them feel like an astronaut. And
that's in a Cessna-172. Who cares if the engine sputters? All of
you sissies go back to MSFS. Its not an aerobatic maneuver and
doesn't require areobatic training!

Bob Moore
ATP CFI

If I moved the throttle forward too quickly on the 172 I learned
on, there would be an almighty bang as it backfired and it would
cough and splutter and take longer to pick up again. I learned
quickly to move the throttle forward smoothly!

Paul

"G.R. Patterson III" wrote in message
...
I would slam the throttle forward with the palm of my hand, while getting
the
carb heat off with my thumb. My instructor said it wasn't necessary to
move that
fast.

In article 0yuzb.19348$_M.65660@attbi_s54,
"mike regish" wrote:

Ever see the Americas Funniest Video where the camera shows two people in
the front seat of a small plane. The shadow is changing, but you can't tell
what they're up to untill the dog comes floating up out of the back seat,
does a quarter turn and floats up in between them.

I didn't see that video but I did see my wife to the same thing one day
when we hit a rather strong windshear.

It's hilarious.

For me, not so much for her.

--
Dale L. Falk

There is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing
as simply messing around with airplanes.

http://home.gci.net/~sncdfalk/flying.html