How to land on a grass airstrip

Matt Whiting wrote:
snip

I agree. I love landing on grass. In the C150 I learned in, I could
hear and feel the blades hitting the tires and knew just when touchdown
was going to occur. It made for consistly smoother touchdowns. Also,
grass is much easier on the tires and brakes.

It would appear that some read into the original enquiry things that he
didn't ask.
Practice grass landings on your home airfield.
Then find a Gliding Club strip. Good surfaces and friendly people.
Of course if you -really- want to fly off topdressing airstrips I
suggest getting a C180 and a friendly topdressing pilot based in a
hilly location :-)

Matt Whiting wrote:
You are the second person who can't distinguish between a grass strip
and a soft field. I guess you both need some remedial instruction. Any
competent private pilot or soloed student even should have no problem
landing on a grass strip. If they do, their instructor should have his
or her license revoked.

The point of my post was that the attitude that if someone wants or
needs to take a CFI with them to practice something they were taught but
never actually *did*, like landing on anything other than a paved
surface, even AFTER they have their license, who are you to pass
judgment on them or on their "original" CFI?

The attitude that "remedial instruction" after one is a licensed private
pilot is something to be ashamed of, or a negative reflection on one's
"original" CFI, has no place here, IMO. Must be nice to be so perfect
that you never need, want or ask for the input of a CFI once you have a
license. If you open any of your private pilot reference books or the
FAR/AIM to review something you learned during private pilot
instruction, is that a negative reflection on your "original" CFI, too?
How do you know how long this person got their license, how often they
fly, or what the terrain is like where they are?

And while on the subject of assumptions, I know grass strips are not
*always* soft fields -- my mistake for not being more specific; your
mistake for assuming that all of them ARE. Where I'm from, if you can
get grass to grow on it, it's soft enough for a soft-field landing;
grass doesn't generally grow on anything harder here ... at least, not
the kind of lush green grass you can see from pattern altitude or above.
*Most* dirt strips around here are soft also. Nevertheless, I don't know
of any school or club that allows one to land a rental aircraft on an
unimproved strip, with or without a CFI.

On Sat, 17 Jun 2006 21:25:46 GMT, Matt Whiting wrote:

See earlier message of mine on landing on grass, but one should always
know the soil of the intended grass runway and taxi with the yoke full
back.

Even when taxiing back after landing into a 30K headwind?

30 knot head wind doesn't reduce the weight on the nose wheel on taxiing,
so yes, you still need yoke full aft, just less power,

Allen

On Sat, 17 Jun 2006 21:10:28 GMT, Matt Whiting wrote:

A Lieberman wrote:

On Sat, 17 Jun 2006 18:14:25 +0100, Quilljar wrote:


No difference, just land normally...


Incorrect advice.....

You want to land as softly and as slowly as possible on a grass strip.

Baloney. He didn't ask about landing on a soft field, he said a grass
airstrip. Grass doesn't imply a soft field at all.

You are still wrong. Unless the sub surface of the grass is a hard as
concrete, grass adds drag on ground ops. Add some weight, and you have
even more drag since now the wheels are not exactly on top of your surface.
Grass strips are not hard top runways.

Since I couldn't find a "legal definition" of soft field, I will put the
ball in your court to prove me wrong that grass strips are not soft fields.

Again, only if this is a soft field. Grass strip isn't synonymous with
soft field. If you don't know the difference, I suggest some remedial
instruction.

Sounds like maybe you need to check into remedial training. I'd say my
method of assuming all grass fields are soft fields will save my hardware
quicker then your assumptions. Grass strips don't have asphalt or concrete
which equals soft field. I'd sure like to see you prove me wrong, as I am
always learning....

Taxiing on soft fields is also significantly different. You hold the yoke
back full aft and taxi with more power to ease the pressure of the nose
wheel.

Right, but he didn't ask about a soft field.

See above, grass strips are not concrete runways, the sub surface the grass
is growing on adds drag to ground ops which is a distinctly different
technique then hard top runways / taxiways.

Not only that, more irregularities in the surface and taxiing or landing at
an excessive speed WITHOUT using soft field techniques will just invite you
to a potential prop strike if your nose wheel just happens to dig in.

Allen

I fly at about 20 feet, just to the side of the runway and
look it over. I do the same with water landings, looking
for rocks, logs and even alligators.

I had an Air Force tanker pilot come to me for a CFI rating.
He had never been on grass and in fact couldn't find an
airport that did not have radar vectors and navaids on the
field. We did a lot of grass strips and pilotage to get him
up to speed. He did the SEL add-on in a few days and took
his CFI check with the feds the next day. A very good pilot
and fast learner, but the USAF doesn't teach T-38/KC 135
pilots to find grass strips in the middle of a world of
grass. The US Army and USMC do a better job at that task.


--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P

"A Lieberman" wrote in message
...
| On 17 Jun 2006 11:43:34 -0700, Doug wrote:
|
| Depends on the grass. Grass strips vary from putting
green smooth to
| plane riping holes, rocks and logs. Examine grass
beforehand.
|
| *smile*
|
| How does one do this from pattern altitude at an airport
they have never
| been to?
|
| Allen

Vandals tip headstones over in cemeteries and sometimes
visit grass strips for similar reasons. If the airport
isn't attended, a low and slow look-see is a good idea. If
attended, a telephone call can alert you to any new issues,
such as a prairie dog colony.


--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P

"Matt Whiting" wrote in message
...
| Doug wrote:
|
| Depends on the grass. Grass strips vary from putting
green smooth to
| plane riping holes, rocks and logs. Examine grass
beforehand.
|
|
| Funny, I've never seen a grass landing strip that had
rocks and logs.
| If you are landing off-airport that is certainly a
possibly, but the
| subject clearly says airstrip, just random field out in
the middle of
| nowhere.
|
|
| Matt

In article ,
A Lieberman wrote:

No difference, just land normally...

Incorrect advice.....
You want to land as softly and as slowly as possible on a grass strip.
Also want to keep the nosewheel off terra firma as long as possible so it
doesn't run the risk of "digging in" from the weight of the engine and prop
when the nose wheel does touch down.
After touchtown, the yoke should be full aft.

You mean you don't do a normal landing this way?

On Sat, 17 Jun 2006 22:33:32 GMT, john smith wrote:

In article ,
A Lieberman wrote:

No difference, just land normally...

Incorrect advice.....
You want to land as softly and as slowly as possible on a grass strip.
Also want to keep the nosewheel off terra firma as long as possible so it
doesn't run the risk of "digging in" from the weight of the engine and prop
when the nose wheel does touch down.
After touchtown, the yoke should be full aft.

You mean you don't do a normal landing this way?

***I don't need the yoke in full aft position AFTER touchdown on paved
runways.***

You don't want to use brakes at all for grass strips on landing or you will
invite the chances of the nose wheel digging in.

Keeping the yoke full aft after landing to shut down will reduce the
pressure on the nose wheel and shift the weight back on your mains where it
needs to be.

Allen

They are out there. I have seen some pretty funky conditions on "grass"
strips. Mud, and obstacles. But like I said, it all depends. If it's
smooth grass, just land line on asphalt. If it is bumpy, land as slow
as possible. If it is muddy come in with power and do your best soft
field technique. My home base grass strip has "moguls".

Matt Whiting wrote:
Funny, I've never seen a grass landing strip that had rocks and logs.
If you are landing off-airport that is certainly a possibly, but the
subject clearly says airstrip, just random field out in the middle of
nowhere.


Matt

I learned in a J-3 on a grass strip. I got a single sentence instruction for
my first hard surface landing. That was to be sure to track the runway in a
crosswind. You can be a little sloppy on grass, but not on asphalt,
especially in a taildragger.

Never gave it any thought before, but taildragger pilots are always going to
touch down nose high and slowed to near stall in any craft, on grass or
asphalt. If there are any taildragger pilots around now days, watch 'em
landing tri-'s sometime.

Sounds like some of you guys are talking about landing in a cow pasture.
Most dirt fields I've flown into had a distinct path marking the strip used
as the runway. No way would I ever intentionally, i. e. on purpose, set one
down in a uniform field of grass about which I was unfamiliar.

There is distinct advantages in becoming proficient in a taildragger and one
that is not spin-proof. I guess all of this dates me.