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#31
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Gary Drescher wrote: But he was still a mile out when he crashed. Well above the DA, he'd have to have been fully below the glideslope, which calls for an immediate missed-approach execution. The DA has no relevance in that situation. --Gary Yes, he would have been well below the theoretical glideslope elevation a mile out (GS elev at that point is approx 812 MSL), but if for some reason (GS malfunction, undetected false glideslope, equipment problem) he thought he was on the glideslope, then he probably would not have initiated go-around until the 639 MSL DA, which would have been too late based on the elevation of the terrain. If the 200 AGL ceiling was at the same MSL (839) elevation at the crash site, then it was only about 20' AGL at the crash site elevation. Hopefully the final report will shed more light on what happened, as all we can do is guess. JPH |
#32
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"J Haggerty" wrote in message
news:ezAee.4545$Ri4.99@okepread07... Yes, he would have been well below the theoretical glideslope elevation a mile out (GS elev at that point is approx 812 MSL), but if for some reason (GS malfunction, undetected false glideslope, equipment problem) he thought he was on the glideslope, then he probably would not have initiated go-around until the 639 MSL DA, which would have been too late based on the elevation of the terrain. Except that he'd received and acknowledged a low-altitude alert. If his GS needle *didn't* show he was very low, then he knew something was wrong either with the GS or with the controller's radar. That unequivocally calls for an immediate climb and missed approach. --Gary |
#33
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Michael wrote:
I think that's pretty much the point. This is the reality of most accidents. The pilot is qualified (at least on paper) and there are no red flags likel buzzing, running out of fuel, drugs, alcohol, or a blatant mistake or disregard for the regulations. There is simple mishandling of the airplane in the takeoff/climb or approach/landing phase of flight. That's what accounts for most accidents and fatalities. Good point. I never thought of an accident record devoid of "really disturbing" as being "really disturbing," but this logic does makes sense. -- Peter ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- |
#34
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Gary Drescher wrote:
Except that he'd received and acknowledged a low-altitude alert. If his GS needle *didn't* show he was very low, then he knew something was wrong either with the GS or with the controller's radar. Not at all suggesting that this was the case, but at our local flight school that has all late model C172SPs equipped with B/K KLN-94 GPS's and moving maps, a number of students over the last few years have been known to forget to toggle the NAV/GPS switch from GPS to NAV when transitioning from en route to ILS approach. As you know, when this happens the VOR1 instrument would show the CDI alive (but really tracking the GPS's course for the localizer). The glideslope needle, however, would be flagged and remain perfectly centered, as if the pilot were flying a perfect glideslope. -- Peter ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- |
#35
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"Peter R." wrote in message
... Gary Drescher wrote: Except that he'd received and acknowledged a low-altitude alert. If his GS needle *didn't* show he was very low, then he knew something was wrong either with the GS or with the controller's radar. Not at all suggesting that this was the case, but at our local flight school that has all late model C172SPs equipped with B/K KLN-94 GPS's and moving maps, a number of students over the last few years have been known to forget to toggle the NAV/GPS switch from GPS to NAV when transitioning from en route to ILS approach. As you know, when this happens the VOR1 instrument would show the CDI alive (but really tracking the GPS's course for the localizer). The glideslope needle, however, would be flagged and remain perfectly centered, as if the pilot were flying a perfect glideslope. Yup. Fortunately, there are at least five ways for an instrument pilot to detect that problem before it's too late: 1) double-check the NAV/GPS switch; 2) observe the flag on the GS; 3) the GS needle should start high and then come to center when approaching the FAF; 4) even when established on the GS, a needle that stays perfectly centered at all times should arouse suspicion; 5) a low-altitude alert should certainly call attention to the problem. --Gary |
#36
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Gary Drescher wrote:
Fortunately, there are at least five ways for an instrument pilot to detect that problem before it's too late: 1) double-check the NAV/GPS switch; 2) observe the flag on the GS; 3) the GS needle should start high and then come to center when approaching the FAF; 4) even when established on the GS, a needle that stays perfectly centered at all times should arouse suspicion; 5) a low-altitude alert should certainly call attention to the problem. For the relatively inexperienced or out of practice instrument pilot, high workload in actual IMC has a way of tricking the mind into seeing or hearing things that aren't or in your five ways listed above, not seeing or hearing things that are. -- Peter ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- |
#37
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cfey,
The instructor was giving IFR instruction for an unrated pilot in actual IMC. Here is a link to an old thread on Instructor Medical http://groups-beta.google.com/group/...b825fc9a3dfb2= e2?dmode=3Dsource&hl=3Den "In accordance with =A7 61.23(3)(iv) the instructor must hold a valid third class medical to act as PIC or to be the safety pilot. This is because of required crewmember status, not due to instruction duties. " |
#38
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#39
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Tom Fleischman k wrote:
Multiple choice: a) you acknowledge the tower call, look over to the other side of the cockpit to check the altimeter setting, look at the approach plate, calm down the student pilot in the right seat and say, in about 14 seconds, hit the cumulogranite; Why are you assuming the student was flying the approach in this accident? Do you know something that hasn't been reported? -- Peter ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- |
#40
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Not according to the news reports I read. And since his 2nd class
reverts to third .. he does get 2 years. The accident was in April. His medical would have been good till the end of March. "Michael" wrote in message oups.com... Any medical issued to a pilot under 40 (which the CFI was) Michael |
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