Jim Pennino or...Jim Pinheado?

Mark wrote:
On Sep 15, 8:04Â*pm, wrote:

You said you were going to buy a LSA, not build one, which means the
airworthiness certificate would be invalid.

There are numerous LSA's which you can buy near completion,
then finish them, becoming the builder on record, and still meet
the 50-50 rule.

It is called the 51% rule, not the 50-50 rule.

Last I looked there are no kit LSA's which meet the 51% rule for the
simple reason that the 51% rule does not apply to kit built LSA's.

The RV-12 may, but it isn't available yet so that is unknown.

And to be the builder and meet the 51% rule, you have to do 51% of the
work, not buy something 98% complete and just do the last 2%.

If you build one and invalidate it as a LSA, now you have to go to the
FAA and somehow get the thing cerificated as an exprimental after the
fact. Â*Good luck on that.

What's an exprimental? New category?

Experimental is what most people call the airplanes that the FAA calls
amateur built which get as label saying "experimental" on them.

If you actually knew anything about aviation you would know that.

Jim logajan posts:
2) Also, for the record, the FAA speed requirement for LSA has some
important qualifiers that allow LSA airplanes to legally travel faster
than
120 kts.

No one but you ever said anything about them not being able to.

No. You said it wasn't allowed.

No, I said you are not allowed to modify the airplane in such a way that
the max cruise speed at sea level is greater than 120 kts.

Actually, you are not allowed to modify anything on a LSA.


--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

On Sep 16, 11:24*am, wrote:
Mark wrote:
On Sep 15, 8:04*pm, wrote:

You said you were going to buy a LSA, not build one, which means the
airworthiness certificate would be invalid.

There are numerous LSA's which you can buy near completion,
then finish them, becoming the builder on record, and still meet
the 50-50 rule.

It is called the 51% rule, not the 50-50 rule.

Technicality.

Last I looked there are no kit LSA's which meet the 51% rule for the
simple reason that the 51% rule does not apply to kit built LSA's.

Yes, I have personal knowledge of this.

Actually what came to mind is the scenerio where companies like
Arion and some other's have Builder Assist. I have encountered
unfinished projects for sale.

The RV-12 may, but it isn't available yet so that is unknown.

And to be the builder and meet the 51% rule, you have to do 51% of the
work, not buy something 98% complete and just do the last 2%.

That isn't what Nick Otterback, Arion's product development manager
told me when I asked him in person. The final authority would be the
FAA, but thus far I have been told different.

If you build one and invalidate it as a LSA, now you have to go to the
FAA and somehow get the thing cerificated as an exprimental after the
fact. *Good luck on that.

What's an exprimental? *New category?

Experimental is what most people call the airplanes that the FAA calls
amateur built which get as label saying "experimental" on them.

Grin, I was just messing with you. Your spelling and grammar
are consistently off, i.e., you'd properly say "an" LSA, not "a" LSA.
I probably know every experimental plane there is. You wrote...
"exprimental", and "cerificated". That's baby gibberish.

If you actually knew anything about aviation you would know that.

I could easily say, "if you weren't a pin-head my spelling correction
wouldn't have escaped you", but you've been respectful lately and
deserve the same. A little humor is like a little salt. Adds flavor.

Jim logajan posts:
2) Also, for the record, the FAA speed requirement for LSA has some
important qualifiers that allow LSA airplanes to legally travel faster
than
120 kts.

No one but you ever said anything about them not being able to.

No. You said it wasn't allowed.

No, I said you are not allowed to modify the airplane in such a way that
the max cruise speed at sea level is greater than 120 kts.

While that is correct, you're official position now has been modified
to be so. No matter. Let's move on.

Actually, you are not allowed to modify anything on a LSA.

The manufacturer will dictate that. (remember..."an" LSA).
A further examination of allowances is worthwhile. Many flight
schools that only offer PP certification are approaching
illiteracy on this subject.

---

Mark

--
Jim Pennino

Mark wrote:
On Sep 16, 11:24Â*am, wrote:
Mark wrote:
On Sep 15, 8:04Â*pm, wrote:

You said you were going to buy a LSA, not build one, which means the
airworthiness certificate would be invalid.

There are numerous LSA's which you can buy near completion,
then finish them, becoming the builder on record, and still meet
the 50-50 rule.

It is called the 51% rule, not the 50-50 rule.

Technicality.

Last I looked there are no kit LSA's which meet the 51% rule for the
simple reason that the 51% rule does not apply to kit built LSA's.

Yes, I have personal knowledge of this.

Actually what came to mind is the scenerio where companies like
Arion and some other's have Builder Assist. I have encountered
unfinished projects for sale.

There are lots of finished and unfinished kits available.

You can buy one someone else built.

The point is to get the benefits, such as qualify for the repairman
certificate, you have to have done the majority of the work yourself.


The RV-12 may, but it isn't available yet so that is unknown.

And to be the builder and meet the 51% rule, you have to do 51% of the
work, not buy something 98% complete and just do the last 2%.

That isn't what Nick Otterback, Arion's product development manager
told me when I asked him in person. The final authority would be the
FAA, but thus far I have been told different.

The FAA says you need to sign and notarize FAA Form 8130-12 attesting to
the fact that you have completed at least 51% of the operations required.

If you build one and invalidate it as a LSA, now you have to go to the
FAA and somehow get the thing cerificated as an exprimental after the
fact. Â*Good luck on that.

What's an exprimental? Â*New category?

Experimental is what most people call the airplanes that the FAA calls
amateur built which get as label saying "experimental" on them.

Grin, I was just messing with you. Your spelling and grammar
are consistently off, i.e., you'd properly say "an" LSA, not "a" LSA.
I probably know every experimental plane there is. You wrote...
"exprimental", and "cerificated". That's baby gibberish.

You are flattering yourself if you think I would bother to waste the time
on spell checking in my response to your posts.

Actually, you are not allowed to modify anything on a LSA.

The manufacturer will dictate that. (remember..."an" LSA).
A further examination of allowances is worthwhile. Many flight
schools that only offer PP certification are approaching
illiteracy on this subject.

YOU can not modify a LSA.

The manufacturer of a LSA may make a change in the design and make that
change either optional or mandatory for existing aircraft.

How do you know when to use the indefinite articles?

"A" goes before all words that begin with consonants.

* a cat
* a dog
* a purple onion
* a buffalo
* a big apple

With one exception: Use "an" before unsounded h.

* an honorable peace
* an honest error

"An" goes before all words that begin with vowels:

* an apricot
* an egg
* an Indian
* an orbit
* an uprising

With two exceptions: When u makes the same sound as the y in you, or o makes the same sound as w in won, then a is used.

* a union
* a united front
* a unicorn
* a used napkin
* a U.S. ship
* a one-legged man

The phonetic quality of the letter "L" makes the use of a versus an debatable.


--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

On Thu, 16 Sep 2010 15:24:39 -0000, wrote:

Experimental is what most people call the airplanes that the FAA calls
amateur built which get as label saying "experimental" on them.

If you actually knew anything about aviation you would know that, Mark.

*lolololol*
--
A fireside chat not with Ari!
http://tr.im/holj
Motto: Live To Spooge It!

On Thu, 16 Sep 2010 09:11:01 -0700 (PDT), Mark wrote:

Last I looked there are no kit LSA's which meet the 51% rule for the
simple reason that the 51% rule does not apply to kit built LSA's.

Yes, I have personal knowledge of this.

Actually what came to mind is the scenerio where companies like
Arion and some other's have Builder Assist. I have encountered
unfinished projects for sale.

I haven't got a ****ing cent to my name but boy o boy it hasn't kept
me from window shopping for the last two years.

oooooooooK

On Thu, 16 Sep 2010 15:24:39 -0000, wrote:

No, I said you are not allowed to modify the airplane in such a way that
the max cruise speed at sea level is greater than 120 kts.

Actually, you are not allowed to modify anything on a LSA, Mark.

Hell, let him, maybe he'll kill himself.

Karma.
--
A fireside chat not with Ari!
http://tr.im/holj
Motto: Live To Spooge It!

On Thu, 16 Sep 2010 17:21:41 -0000, wrote:

Experimental is what most people call the airplanes that the FAA calls
amateur built which get as label saying "experimental" on them.

Grin, I was just messing with you. Your spelling and grammar
are consistently off, i.e., you'd properly say "an" LSA, not "a" LSA.
I probably know every experimental plane there is. You wrote...
"exprimental", and "cerificated". That's baby gibberish.

You are flattering yourself if you think I would bother to waste the time
on spell checking in my response to your posts.

*rofl*
--
A fireside chat not with Ari!
http://tr.im/holj
Motto: Live To Spooge It!

On Sep 16, 1:21*pm, wrote:

Actually what came to mind is the scenerio where companies like
Arion and some other's have Builder Assist. I have encountered
unfinished projects for sale.

There are lots of finished and unfinished kits available.

You can buy one someone else built.

The point is to get the benefits, such as qualify for the repairman
certificate, you have to have done the majority of the work yourself.

WRONG (again). There can be multiple people involved, as I stated,
such as the person whom you bought it from.

"What if you bought the project from a previous owner who never
finished it?
It does not matter how many previous owners a project may have had -
as long as each owner intended to build the aircraft for their own
education or recreation - if you can document or show documentation of
the work that each did, it is as if YOU did the work!"

http://www.aircraftersllc.com/51percent.htm

---
Mark

On Sep 16, 1:21*pm, wrote:

Grin, I was just messing with you. Your spelling and grammar
are consistently off, i.e., you'd properly say "an" LSA, not "a" LSA.
I probably know every experimental plane there is. You wrote...
"exprimental", and "cerificated". *That's baby gibberish.

You are flattering yourself if you think I would bother to waste the time
on spell checking in my response to your posts.

I don't operate on a double standard. If you're going to
submit semi-literate garbage for me to read don't nit-pick
at everything I say. And in the case of "LSA", it sounds
like Elle-s-a beginning with the vowel, E, so preceeding it
with "an" is proper. There are other words beginning with
consonants that sound like vowels that weren't on your
little elementary list.

---
Mark

On Sep 16, 1:21*pm, wrote:

There are numerous LSA's which you can buy near completion,
then finish them, becoming the builder on record, and still meet
the 50-50 rule.

And to be the builder and meet the 51% rule, you have to do 51% of the
work, not buy something 98% complete and just do the last 2%.

That isn't what Nick Otterback, Arion's product development manager
told me when I asked him in person. The final authority would be the
FAA, but thus far I have been told different.

But then, you won't take the word of Kevin Gould, president
and CEO of Piper when he makes it crystal clear in this
interview when he says QUOTE, "Import THEIR (czech sportaircraft)
aircraft, brand them, and sell them through our distribution
network".

So are you still maintaining that the Piper Sport isn't
a Czech Sportcruiser with a Piper decal, but now
it's a different airplane?

And in the light of the link I've provided you to clarify
the 51% rule, do you still maintain that I cannot buy a
builder-assist LSA at ANY stage of completion, finish
ANY amount of work myself to bring it to the 51% and
get the ELSA credit and certification?

Are you maintaining that in my meeting with Nick
Otterback, director of product management for Arion
Aircraft company, that this ace pilot and executive
for a multimillion dollar aircraft company, that he
is less informed than you, just like Kevin Gould,
president and CEO of Piper Aircraft?

The FAA says you need to sign and notarize FAA Form 8130-12 attesting to
the fact that you have completed at least 51% of the operations required.

Non sequitur. I know the form number.

---
Mark