Landing a Mooney

(WARREN1157) wrote in message ...
I generally take 5 knots off everything in my Mooney when I'm light.


I can't remember the numbers on my C model mooney but I would fly the airplane
down the runway to bleed off airspeed and about 5 mph before stall I would
retract the flaps.

I've discovered this one way to land a small plane in gusty
conditions. Instead of bouncing around in the gusts a few feet or
inches over the runway, let off the flaps. Flare as normal of course,
and the plane will set down very nicely. It's faster till the plane's
weight gets on the wheels this way.

However, I've never seen this taught anywhere. Comments?

-Malcolm Teas

Don't flare a Mooney.

What you know as a flare will cause nothing but trouble.

Instead of the "flare" do a "round out". If you have good electric trim,
use it instead of back pressure. Also, don't chop the power, remove it
SLOOOOWWWWLLLY. The plane can land before idle.You want a slow transition
from nose down to nose wheel just a bit higher. Let the plane fly down the
runway while the speed bleeds. Worry about spot landings after you have
practiced smooth ones. Once you have the site pictures and techniques, you
can move it to the numbers.

What others have said about airspeed and stabilized approach are more
important than what I just said, but if you got them right this is the next
step.




"Jon Kraus" wrote in message
...
We just purchased a'79 M20J 4443H. I am in the middle of getting my 10
hours with a CFI for Insurance purposes and I have to tell you that this
thing is a lot different to land than a Skyhawk. So far I am glad that
my CFI has been with me because 75 percent of the landings have not been
pretty. They are safe (mostly) but nothing you'd want the wife to film
with the video camera. I've got the speeds down good (100 on downwind,
90 on base and 80 on final) but getting it to the runway smoothly has
been a challange.

I've never flown a low wing plane before the Mooney and I am having a
problem with the sight picture working out for me. Is this a pretty
common issue in transitioning to these planes or should I just resign to
the fact that I'm not going to get as nice a landings in my Mooney as I
did in the Skyhawk .

Right now any stories would help out tremendously!! Thanks.

Jon Kraus
PP-ASEL-IA
Student Mooney Owner
'79 M20J 4443H @ TYQ

Until you get your visual sight picture down you might try reducing power to
idle at about 50' and just flying it onto the runway with a controlled
smooth descent, making sure you don't land nosegear first. Then when you
have that down you could use the "normal" procedure of holding it just off
the runway until it plays out and lands. With a low wing you have a little
more ground effect near touchdown.

--

Darrell R. Schmidt
B-58 Hustler History: http://members.cox.net/dschmidt1/
-

"Jon Kraus" wrote in message
...
We just purchased a'79 M20J 4443H. I am in the middle of getting my 10
hours with a CFI for Insurance purposes and I have to tell you that this
thing is a lot different to land than a Skyhawk. So far I am glad that
my CFI has been with me because 75 percent of the landings have not been
pretty. They are safe (mostly) but nothing you'd want the wife to film
with the video camera. I've got the speeds down good (100 on downwind,
90 on base and 80 on final) but getting it to the runway smoothly has
been a challange.

I've never flown a low wing plane before the Mooney and I am having a
problem with the sight picture working out for me. Is this a pretty
common issue in transitioning to these planes or should I just resign to
the fact that I'm not going to get as nice a landings in my Mooney as I
did in the Skyhawk .

Right now any stories would help out tremendously!! Thanks.

Jon Kraus
PP-ASEL-IA
Student Mooney Owner
'79 M20J 4443H @ TYQ

Hard to resist this thread. I was on the Mooney listserver for a couple of
years and there is an 'unlimited' number of landing notes for you. Every
model, vintage, condition. If you aren't on it, you should be. Don't have
the details though.

The various models apparently have different speeds, challenges, and
techniques. I flew a '61 model 21 with the Johnson bar. I fell in love
with landing it, and I'm a high wing guy too. Airspeed as always was the
key.

The thing I liked the most though, was doing short field landings at 65mph
as I remember. At a very specific airspeed (68 I think at our weight), you
apparently fell out of laminar flow mode and the descent angle would
significantly steepen. If you held 65 and pulled the power 2 wingspans up,
it was automatic spot landing. Neat. I think someone else mentioned that
effect (pitch up and slow 5 knots and the descent rate goes up).

Apparently that is a lot trickier on the later heavier models. Have fun!

"Jon Kraus" wrote in message
...
We just purchased a'79 M20J 4443H. I am in the middle of getting my 10
hours with a CFI for Insurance purposes and I have to tell you that this
thing is a lot different to land than a Skyhawk. So far I am glad that
my CFI has been with me because 75 percent of the landings have not been
pretty. They are safe (mostly) but nothing you'd want the wife to film
with the video camera. I've got the speeds down good (100 on downwind,
90 on base and 80 on final) but getting it to the runway smoothly has
been a challange.

I've never flown a low wing plane before the Mooney and I am having a
problem with the sight picture working out for me. Is this a pretty
common issue in transitioning to these planes or should I just resign to
the fact that I'm not going to get as nice a landings in my Mooney as I
did in the Skyhawk .

Right now any stories would help out tremendously!! Thanks.

Jon Kraus
PP-ASEL-IA
Student Mooney Owner
'79 M20J 4443H @ TYQ

I also do my short field landings like that when I'm in Mexico with my
Mooney. As you slow the Mooney down below around 70 knots the rate of decent
goes up a lot. You can drag it in on the prop and drop it one a spot easily.
If you run the trim all the way back you can also raise the nose up on take
off and accelerate on the mains. Tricky though, check out a CFI first.

BTW: If you are flying an older Mooney just substitute knots for mph. So the
older Mooneys approach at 75-80mpg, the newer one use 75-80 knots. Same
thing with over the fence speed (should be 5 mph less than your approach
speed). Kinda neat that it works out that way.

-Robert

"Maule Driver" wrote in message
om...
Hard to resist this thread. I was on the Mooney listserver for a couple
of
years and there is an 'unlimited' number of landing notes for you. Every
model, vintage, condition. If you aren't on it, you should be. Don't
have
the details though.

The various models apparently have different speeds, challenges, and
techniques. I flew a '61 model 21 with the Johnson bar. I fell in love
with landing it, and I'm a high wing guy too. Airspeed as always was the
key.

The thing I liked the most though, was doing short field landings at
65mph
as I remember. At a very specific airspeed (68 I think at our weight), you
apparently fell out of laminar flow mode and the descent angle would
significantly steepen. If you held 65 and pulled the power 2 wingspans
up,
it was automatic spot landing. Neat. I think someone else mentioned that
effect (pitch up and slow 5 knots and the descent rate goes up).

Apparently that is a lot trickier on the later heavier models. Have fun!

"Jon Kraus" wrote in message
...
We just purchased a'79 M20J 4443H. I am in the middle of getting my 10
hours with a CFI for Insurance purposes and I have to tell you that this
thing is a lot different to land than a Skyhawk. So far I am glad that
my CFI has been with me because 75 percent of the landings have not been
pretty. They are safe (mostly) but nothing you'd want the wife to film
with the video camera. I've got the speeds down good (100 on downwind,
90 on base and 80 on final) but getting it to the runway smoothly has
been a challange.

I've never flown a low wing plane before the Mooney and I am having a
problem with the sight picture working out for me. Is this a pretty
common issue in transitioning to these planes or should I just resign to
the fact that I'm not going to get as nice a landings in my Mooney as I
did in the Skyhawk .

Right now any stories would help out tremendously!! Thanks.

Jon Kraus
PP-ASEL-IA
Student Mooney Owner
'79 M20J 4443H @ TYQ

Years ago I did allot of flying in a M20C, they are fast and tend to float.
If I remember the key is to be right on the speed at flare or expect it to
balloon and float. It will get better with practice.

Ron Gardner

Jon Kraus wrote:

We just purchased a'79 M20J 4443H. I am in the middle of getting my 10
hours with a CFI for Insurance purposes and I have to tell you that this
thing is a lot different to land than a Skyhawk. So far I am glad that
my CFI has been with me because 75 percent of the landings have not been
pretty. They are safe (mostly) but nothing you'd want the wife to film
with the video camera. I've got the speeds down good (100 on downwind,
90 on base and 80 on final) but getting it to the runway smoothly has
been a challange.

I've never flown a low wing plane before the Mooney and I am having a
problem with the sight picture working out for me. Is this a pretty
common issue in transitioning to these planes or should I just resign to
the fact that I'm not going to get as nice a landings in my Mooney as I
did in the Skyhawk .

Right now any stories would help out tremendously!! Thanks.

Jon Kraus
PP-ASEL-IA
Student Mooney Owner
'79 M20J 4443H @ TYQ

Key to a smooth landing ishave the flightpath to be parallel to the landing
surface as the plane touches. Consistent roundouts to land need good
consistent airspeed control. It s amater of timing.

Btw, is you engine a IO-360-A3B6 or still an IO-360-A1B6 ?

Kent Felkins
Tulsa

a

Jon Kraus wrote
We just purchased a'79 M20J 4443H. I am in the middle of getting my 10
hours with a CFI for Insurance purposes and I have to tell you that this
thing is a lot different to land than a Skyhawk.

Yes it is. It's also a lot different than other airplanes in its
class.

It's not really that it's harder to land - it's that it advertises
even your most minor mistakes to everyone watching. Some airplanes
make you look good even when you are sloppy - true of the C-172, and
also true of the Bonanza (and pretty much every Beech product I've
ever flown, though I admit I haven't flown and Beech taildraggers).
Some airplanes make you look bad if you do anything short of a perfect
job.

I've got the speeds down good (100 on downwind,
90 on base and 80 on final) but getting it to the runway smoothly has
been a challange.

Those speeds sound right. However, all the correct speed buys you is
a landing that is WHERE you want it. The Mooney gear has very little
shock absorption. In something like a Bonanza, you have long oleo
struts - so a few inches either way is no big deal. Three inches high
and you will never know it. In a Mooney, three inches high is very
noticeable. Those rubber donuts simply are not very good for shock
absorption. Bottom line - you're not just transitioning into an
airplane that lands differently, you're transitioning into one that
requires more skill to land well - not just airspeed control, but
judging your altitude and rate of descent in the flare precisely (and
I mean down to the inch).

I've never flown a low wing plane before the Mooney and I am having a
problem with the sight picture working out for me. Is this a pretty
common issue in transitioning to these planes or should I just resign to
the fact that I'm not going to get as nice a landings in my Mooney as I
did in the Skyhawk .

It's not a low wing vs. high wing issue - it's just that you are being
called upon to judge and control your altitude and rate of descent in
the flare more precisely than was ever necessary before. You are
extending your skills. So get a CFI experienced in Mooneys (not some
guy who has 10 hours in one, but someone who actually owns and flies a
Mooney) and practice man, practice. With time, it will come.

Michael

Michael wrote:

It's not really that it's harder to land - it's that it advertises
even your most minor mistakes to everyone watching.

Also advertises those mistakes to the pilot's rear. There's not much
give in those rubber biscuits.

In rec.aviation.owning Jon Kraus wrote:
: We just purchased a'79 M20J 4443H. I am in the middle of getting my 10
: hours with a CFI for Insurance purposes and I have to tell you that this
: thing is a lot different to land than a Skyhawk. So far I am glad that

snip; followup limited to RAO
Hi Jon! Nice airplane.
The trim is very powerful in these airplanes. Much more powerful than a
skyhawk or cherokee. It's important to trim the plane up to final approach
speed instead of holding pressure or you'll never be able to round out and
flare precisely. I think your final speeds are a couple knots too high
unless you're flying at gross.
One other thing to watch is make sure that you arrest the sink rate with a
good round-out. It's not the same as a flare. If you flare without stopping
the sink rate you'll pound the plane onto the mains (carrier landings).
The plane will slam the nose wheel down and bounce right back up. You can
get away with pounding a skyhawk or cherokee or navion in because they've
got very forgiving landing gears. Mooney airplance have little damping in
their landing gear, the rubber donuts compress then expand right back
leading to impressive bounces.
Also try to lower the nose gently after touching down. "Derotation" it's
called in jets, or "fly the nose to the runway". Just letting the nose
come down of its own accord will usually bounce it.
I find that coming down final slowly, trimmed up to approach speed, using
full flaps, close the throttle over the fence, stopping the sink rate as
the plane gets to 1 or 2 feet, and letting the plane land itself works for
me. Trying to force it onto the runway won't work.
I do feel for you; my first landing in the M20J (a 1983 model) was at
Nantuckett. I was 10K fast, and floated something like 2500 feet before
touching down while listening to the owner screaming "just let it go
don't force it on!!!" Good thing the runway's 7000 feet long...
--
Aaron Coolidge (N9376J)