Powerflarm results @Seniors

We have received the reports of the insufficient range at the
‘Seniors’ in Florida and would like to apologize for the problems.
Current status:
- For now, we cannot reproduce the problem with identical hardware;
not in the lab and not on European frequencies.
- The rental units that are being returned to Rex contain some
recorded data which is being analyzed.
- We have additional (very fancy and expensive) RF measurement
equipment on order which will arrive this week.

It is, without a doubt, our #1 priority to resolve this unfortunate
situation as soon as possible.

Urs
FLARM

At the recent Seniors I took delivery of a Power flarm and I had no
time to position it in a way to be able to see the screen or to link
it to my Dell Streak running XCSoar. I velcro'd it on top of my main
battery that sits behind my head at the front of the turtle deck of my
LS8 affording me audio only warning capability but enabling other
flarm equipped aircraft to see me. I set vertical Height at 1,000 ft
and horizontal clearance to two miles. I don't know if the flarm
missed any threats but if it did they subsequently were never
realized. Whenever I became aware of a potential conflict the flarm
chirped up, particularly in some tight gaggle situations, when the
flarm reinforced the need to keep your head on a swivel is the most
important action to avoid and steer clear of a conflict.

I received two warnings about aircaft whose position I was not aware,
one from the side when I was looking the opposite way but picked up at
the same time the flarm beeped and the other from behind and below.
Neither situation was a near miss category because at least one of the
pilots was aware of the other's position but without the awareness of
either one of the parties the flarm warning would have proved more
than useful.

Without a screen I was unaware of the reported technical short
comings. If the units are not producing optimum technical performance
to advertised standards then this certainly needs to be addressed and
as evidenced in the post above by Ursus an investigation is already
underway. In my limited experience using Power flarm, it did the job.

Charlie,

FLARM is quite new device also here, and I hope it will become
standard device also in US. In cloudstreet flying it's a lifesaver.
The standard LX FLARM antennas are dipoles - I am after something
that would allow me to install the antenna outside of the plane hull,
either behind or front of the canopy. I believe that streamlined
antenna housing would not cause much loss or energy, but would greatly
improve the radio range.

-kh

I know this is dangerous, but I've been thinking. What about using the
TE probe for mounting? The tail style TE probe extends 12 to 18 inches
from the crabon fiber tail. It could be secured a few inches behind
the probe pressure openings, so it wouldn't interfer with air flow
over the sensors. Of course you would need to install a connector, so
it could be removed.

On Mar 25, 11:56*am, Kimmo Hytoenen wrote:
Charlie,

FLARM is quite new device also here, and I hope it will become
standard device also in US. In cloudstreet flying it's a lifesaver.
The standard LX FLARM antennas are dipoles - I am after something
that would allow me to install the antenna outside of the plane hull,
either behind or front of the canopy. I believe that streamlined
antenna housing would not cause much loss or energy, but would greatly
improve the radio range.

-kh

On Sun, 25 Mar 2012 09:50:24 -0700, cfinn wrote:

I know this is dangerous, but I've been thinking. What about using the
TE probe for mounting? The tail style TE probe extends 12 to 18 inches
from the crabon fiber tail. It could be secured a few inches behind the
probe pressure openings, so it wouldn't interfer with air flow over the
sensors. Of course you would need to install a connector, so it could be
removed.

Dolba & Dolba make and sell a variety of FLARM antennae for Europe: foil
stick-ons, flat plate and rod antennae. It might be worthwhile asking if
they can supply them for the PF using the US frequency. I was put onto
them by Glasfaser when I was looking for FLARM antennae for my Libelle.

Here's a URL: http://www.dolba.de/index.html



--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

On Friday, March 23, 2012 7:58:29 PM UTC-4, cfinn wrote:
Kimmo, you didn't say where you are located. However, I think you are
outside the US. The Power Flarm being pushed in the US is a different
device then the Flarm units being used successfully in Europe and
other areas.

Also, I think those that are pushing Power Flarm use in the US are
doing a disservice to pilots. The US is mandated to use ADS-B in most
aircraft by 2020. The UAT version of ADS-B was developed specifically
as a lower cost system for general aviation. In addition to traffic
alerts, it also provides ID to ATC, and other services such as weather
and TFR's. It's true that ADS-B in it's raw form doesn't provide the
same alert suppression that Flarm does for gliders. However, it would
not be difficult to add those routines to soaring software in a PDA,
etc. After all, the processor in the Flarm is fairly low power.

Think of what the Power Flarm is trying to do verses what the standard
European Butterfly Flarm. In Europe, the only consideration is Flarm
to Flarm information, including air to air and ground hazards.
PowerFlarm is trying to add transponder and ADS-B information. Now we
require more receivers, more antennas and more processing power. The
software becomes more complicated because of the need to integrate
three entirely different systems. With ADS-B, you have one receiver,
one antenna, etc., and only need to process the ADS-B protocol. I did
neglect to say, both also have a GPS receiver.

I'm not about to become involved in a big discussion (read bitch
session) about why ADS-B won't work for gliders. Some people have
vested interests in pushing Flarm.

Charlie

On Mar 23, 6:57*pm, Kimmo Hytoenen wrote:
I have installed several FLARM units. Most installations have been
successful, i.e. the detection range is larger that the green area
indicated in the FLARM range analysis. However in one LS-7 I have
not been able to locate antenna right yet. It looks like the compass
of that plane, located on top of the instrument panel, is blocking the
field into 11 clock direction.

My opinion is, that FLARM is a good tool when the antennas are
correctly positioned. It might give you that critical 10 seconds time
to react. However. antenna positioning remains largely unsolved
problem. I await with interest the development of two antenna
systems for PowerFLARM.

We use LED based simple FLARM displays which show the nearest
airplane, green when no danger, and red/alarm in danger.
Additionally we are building connections to devices like Winpilot or
XCSoar to show all nearby traffic detected by FLARM. That is also
great when you are flying with other people - you know where they
are, and what they are doing. Each FLARM unit has it's own code,
and you can nickname them. You might like to know if it's the local
von Richthofen approaching from sun's direction, or someone more
friendly.

At least I know couple pilots who - uh - need more clearance, I
think...

The other HUGE advantage of ADS-B is that if you are flying within range of an ADS-B ground station, you will see all Mode C/S transponder equipped aircraft in your area that are visible to ATC.

Over 1/2 of the ADS-B ground station network is currently installed. If you fly near a major metropolitan area, chances are you are currently within range of a ground station.

If you have a Trig 21 transponder, all you need to broadcast an ADS-B out signal is a GPS source, some cables, and overcoming some FAA BS. ADS-B IN receivers are widely available for ~$300 (see http://www.gns-gmbh.com/index.php?id=219&L=1). Couple this with a PDA or an iPhone and a clever app, and you could have a collision avoidance system that has 10X the capability of the TCAS systems that the airlines are currently using.

Mike Schumann

At 17:51 25 March 2012, Martin Gregorie wrote:
On Sun, 25 Mar 2012 09:50:24 -0700, cfinn wrote:

I know this is dangerous, but I've been thinking. What about
using the
TE probe for mounting? The tail style TE probe extends 12 to
18 inches
from the crabon fiber tail. It could be secured a few inches
behind the
probe pressure openings, so it wouldn't interfer with air flow
over the
sensors. Of course you would need to install a connector, so
it could be
removed.

Dolba & Dolba make and sell a variety of FLARM antennae for
Europe: foil
stick-ons, flat plate and rod antennae. It might be worthwhile
asking if
they can supply them for the PF using the US frequency. I was
put onto
them by Glasfaser when I was looking for FLARM antennae for
my Libelle.

Here's a URL: http://www.dolba.de/index.html



--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |


Martin,
I am afraid, that antenna is not the problem, it's the positioning
of it. You can install yagi -type antenna, that has high gain in
one direction, but then you are not visible in other directions.
Also, if antenna has high gain, it typically has low overall efficiency.
Same stands for receiving.
Dipole if efficient and near optimal antenna in this application,
IMHO.
-kh

On Mar 25, 2:45*pm, Mike Schumann wrote:
On Friday, March 23, 2012 7:58:29 PM UTC-4, cfinn wrote:
Kimmo, you didn't say where you are located. However, I think you are
outside the US. *The Power Flarm being pushed in the US is a different
device then the Flarm units being used successfully in Europe and
other areas.

Also, I think those that are pushing Power Flarm use in the US are
doing a disservice to pilots. The US is mandated to use ADS-B in most
aircraft by 2020. The UAT version of ADS-B was developed specifically
as a lower cost system for general aviation. In addition to traffic
alerts, it also provides ID to ATC, and other services such as weather
and TFR's. It's true that ADS-B in it's raw form doesn't provide the
same alert suppression that Flarm does for gliders. However, it would
not be difficult to add those routines to soaring software in a PDA,
etc. After all, the processor in the Flarm is fairly low power.

Think of what the Power Flarm is trying to do verses what the standard
European Butterfly Flarm. In Europe, the only consideration is Flarm
to Flarm information, including air to air and ground hazards.
PowerFlarm is trying to add transponder and ADS-B information. Now we
require more receivers, more antennas and more processing power. The
software becomes more complicated because of the need to integrate
three entirely different systems. With ADS-B, you have one receiver,
one antenna, etc., and only need to process the ADS-B protocol. I did
neglect to say, both also have a GPS receiver.

I'm not about to become involved in a big discussion (read bitch
session) about why ADS-B won't work for gliders. Some people have
vested interests in pushing Flarm.

Charlie

On Mar 23, 6:57*pm, Kimmo Hytoenen wrote:
I have installed several FLARM units. Most installations have been
successful, i.e. the detection range is larger that the green area
indicated in the FLARM range analysis. However in one LS-7 I have
not been able to locate antenna right yet. It looks like the compass
of that plane, located on top of the instrument panel, is blocking the
field into 11 clock direction.

My opinion is, that FLARM is a good tool when the antennas are
correctly positioned. It might give you that critical 10 seconds time
to react. However. antenna positioning remains largely unsolved
problem. I await with interest the development of two antenna
systems for PowerFLARM.

We use LED based simple FLARM displays which show the nearest
airplane, green when no danger, and red/alarm in danger.
Additionally we are building connections to devices like Winpilot or
XCSoar to show all nearby traffic detected by FLARM. That is also
great when you are flying with other people - you know where they
are, and what they are doing. Each FLARM unit has it's own code,
and you can nickname them. You might like to know if it's the local
von Richthofen approaching from sun's direction, or someone more
friendly.

At least I know couple pilots who - uh - need more clearance, I
think...

The other HUGE advantage of ADS-B is that if you are flying within range of an ADS-B ground station, you will see all Mode C/S transponder equipped aircraft in your area that are visible to ATC.

Over 1/2 of the ADS-B ground station network is currently installed. *If you fly near a major metropolitan area, chances are you are currently within range of a ground station.

If you have a Trig 21 transponder, all you need to broadcast an ADS-B out signal is a GPS source, some cables, and overcoming some FAA BS. *ADS-B IN receivers are widely available for ~$300 (seehttp://www.gns-gmbh.com/index.php?id=219&L=1). *Couple this with a PDA or an iPhone and a clever app, and you could have a collision avoidance system that has 10X the capability of the TCAS systems that the airlines are currently using.

Mike Schumann

Hi Mike - true in the USA, but in Canada, ADS-B coverage is currently
planned only for the areas of the country that there is no radar
coverage of (sorry for the dangling participle) - the Arctic, and
areas off the East Coast. There is no plan for southern (to us, N of
49) airspace to have ADS-B. For us, PowerFLARM's PCAS and glider/
glider system makes a lot of sense. For those around Class B or C
airspace, adding transponders also make sense. For Canadians who go
south to compete (or fly the Ridge, or the Whites), the case for
PowerFLARM is compelling.

On Sun, 25 Mar 2012 20:06:45 +0000, Kimmo Hytoenen wrote:

I am afraid, that antenna is not the problem, it's the positioning of
it.

I'm not arguing with that: I know that problem first hand from fitting a
RedBox in my Libelle. The solution I chose, following discussions with a
Danish Libelle pilot, was to fit a dipole half-way between the front of
the instrument tray and the rudder pedals. This works well, though its
exact position id fairly critical: see

http://www.gregorie.org/gliding/libe...ole_mount.html


You can install yagi -type antenna, that has high gain in one
direction, but then you are not visible in other directions.

Yes, I wondered about that, but they always seem to recommend using the
Yagi in conjunction with a splitter and an omnidirectional antenna.

Same stands for receiving.

Quite.

Dipole if efficient and near optimal antenna in this application,
IMHO.

....but difficult to install on a carbon airframe without adding drag. I
just wanted to highlight a source of a variety of antennae that can be
mounted remotely from the PF.

Disclaimer: I am not connected in any way with Dolba.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

On Sunday, March 25, 2012 5:12:13 PM UTC-4, Dan wrote:
On Mar 25, 2:45*pm, Mike Schumann wrote:
On Friday, March 23, 2012 7:58:29 PM UTC-4, cfinn wrote:
Kimmo, you didn't say where you are located. However, I think you are
outside the US. *The Power Flarm being pushed in the US is a different
device then the Flarm units being used successfully in Europe and
other areas.

Also, I think those that are pushing Power Flarm use in the US are
doing a disservice to pilots. The US is mandated to use ADS-B in most
aircraft by 2020. The UAT version of ADS-B was developed specifically
as a lower cost system for general aviation. In addition to traffic
alerts, it also provides ID to ATC, and other services such as weather
and TFR's. It's true that ADS-B in it's raw form doesn't provide the
same alert suppression that Flarm does for gliders. However, it would
not be difficult to add those routines to soaring software in a PDA,
etc. After all, the processor in the Flarm is fairly low power.

Think of what the Power Flarm is trying to do verses what the standard
European Butterfly Flarm. In Europe, the only consideration is Flarm
to Flarm information, including air to air and ground hazards.
PowerFlarm is trying to add transponder and ADS-B information. Now we
require more receivers, more antennas and more processing power. The
software becomes more complicated because of the need to integrate
three entirely different systems. With ADS-B, you have one receiver,
one antenna, etc., and only need to process the ADS-B protocol. I did
neglect to say, both also have a GPS receiver.

I'm not about to become involved in a big discussion (read bitch
session) about why ADS-B won't work for gliders. Some people have
vested interests in pushing Flarm.

Charlie

On Mar 23, 6:57*pm, Kimmo Hytoenen wrote:
I have installed several FLARM units. Most installations have been
successful, i.e. the detection range is larger that the green area
indicated in the FLARM range analysis. However in one LS-7 I have
not been able to locate antenna right yet. It looks like the compass
of that plane, located on top of the instrument panel, is blocking the
field into 11 clock direction.

My opinion is, that FLARM is a good tool when the antennas are
correctly positioned. It might give you that critical 10 seconds time
to react. However. antenna positioning remains largely unsolved
problem. I await with interest the development of two antenna
systems for PowerFLARM.

We use LED based simple FLARM displays which show the nearest
airplane, green when no danger, and red/alarm in danger.
Additionally we are building connections to devices like Winpilot or
XCSoar to show all nearby traffic detected by FLARM. That is also
great when you are flying with other people - you know where they
are, and what they are doing. Each FLARM unit has it's own code,
and you can nickname them. You might like to know if it's the local
von Richthofen approaching from sun's direction, or someone more
friendly.

At least I know couple pilots who - uh - need more clearance, I
think...

The other HUGE advantage of ADS-B is that if you are flying within range of an ADS-B ground station, you will see all Mode C/S transponder equipped aircraft in your area that are visible to ATC.

Over 1/2 of the ADS-B ground station network is currently installed. *If you fly near a major metropolitan area, chances are you are currently within range of a ground station.

If you have a Trig 21 transponder, all you need to broadcast an ADS-B out signal is a GPS source, some cables, and overcoming some FAA BS. *ADS-B IN receivers are widely available for ~$300 (seehttp://www.gns-gmbh.com/index.php?id=219&L=1). *Couple this with a PDA or an iPhone and a clever app, and you could have a collision avoidance system that has 10X the capability of the TCAS systems that the airlines are currently using.

Mike Schumann

Hi Mike - true in the USA, but in Canada, ADS-B coverage is currently
planned only for the areas of the country that there is no radar
coverage of (sorry for the dangling participle) - the Arctic, and
areas off the East Coast. There is no plan for southern (to us, N of
49) airspace to have ADS-B. For us, PowerFLARM's PCAS and glider/
glider system makes a lot of sense. For those around Class B or C
airspace, adding transponders also make sense. For Canadians who go
south to compete (or fly the Ridge, or the Whites), the case for
PowerFLARM is compelling.

Assuming that PowerFLARM gets their ADS-B IN capability working (including TIS-B support), that will be a good solution as long as you couple it with a Trig 21 that is transmitting an ADS-B Out signal. For those of us who don't participate in competitions, the biggest collision threat are GA power aircraft, which are usually Mode C transponder equipped, and will probably never install FLARM. Those are the guys that show up on ADS-B via a ground station.