non-towered airport question

Why did you choose the longer rwy when the wind favored the shorter one?
Unless you are doing xwind practice I think using the wind as a precedent is
most prudent. You have every right to use a runway of your choosing, but
the decision making ability has to be good as well.

You mention in another post about 10kts airspeed difference. What is the
reason for that and what plane is that?

What were the winds and what were the rwy headings and lengths?

"Snowbird" wrote in message
om...
What's the general viewpoint here?

A non-towered airport near us has two runways, shaped
like an "L". Totally flat, no obstructions to vision--
airplane at the departure end for one can see airplanes
at the other. Left traffic both, so the downwind for the
short runway crosses the longer runway at midfield.
The possible conflict points are simultaneous T/O,
or crosswind for the short runway/downwind for the
long.

Today at that airport, one aircraft was in the pattern for
the shorter runway, which the wind favored. I wanted to use
the longer runway for various reasons, so exercising a sharp
look-out and making my radio calls, I proceded to do so.
Later another plane joined him.

There were no conflicts AFAIK. Everyone was doing a good job
making transmissions and keeping track of each other.
It was a good exercise for me since our new home airport has
a similar setup with both runways frequently in use -- and the
added complication of right traffic in one direction, left in
the other. I'm still getting used to it.

When a fourth aircraft called in, I decided the spatial
relationships were getting complicated and taxied over to
the short run way, did one short field landing which my instructor
would have liked and I didn't (power on), and headed for the
horizon.

Question is: how would most pilots here feel about this?
Would you feel I should have just joined with traffic
for the shorter runway? In terms of my plane's capabilities
and mine, it's plenty of runway, no reason why not. It just
wasn't what I preferred initially.

I used to be based at that airport and it wasn't uncommon, if
I was in the pattern for the short runway, to have other planes
land on the long. It never bothered me except when someone
came straight-in and obviously had no idea where the rest of
the traffic was. But one of the planes in the pattern seemed
to indicate, um, let's say displeasure with me. That doesn't
concern me -- people have to say whatever they feel improves
safety and presents them in a professional light, *hee* *hee*,
and I kept my rule of "don't argue on freq. just don't and
say you didn't"

However I figure I should ask for a sanity-check on whether
what's SOP at home is regarded as inappropriate or rude
elsewhere.

Cheers,
Sydney

"Richard Hertz" wrote in message . net...
Why did you choose the longer rwy when the wind favored the shorter one?

Liked the color . Sorry to be sarcastic, but my question
had to do with how other pilots regard the use of 2 runways
at once, and I sense a theme here of wanting to microanalyze
my decision making process and the specific situation, which
isn't my personal interest.

Unless you are doing xwind practice

Good "unless"

I think using the wind as a precedent is most prudent.

See other posts giving reasons why other runways might be
more prudent (besides xwind landing practice).

You mention in another post about 10kts airspeed difference. What is the
reason for that and what plane is that?

Higher stall speed, dramatically higher sink rate approaching stall,
Grumman. It's SOP taught in the type-club pilot fam course. Cruise
speed is also 10-20 kts faster.

What were the winds and what were the rwy headings and lengths?

I have no idea -- nothing too kicky, 10-12 kts? They were fairly
variable. 36, ~3500 27, 2000. I can land on the 2000 ft runway
and make the half-way turnoff without touching the brakes.

(Snowbird) wrote in message . com...
What's the general viewpoint here?

Today at that airport, one aircraft was in the pattern for
the shorter runway, which the wind favored. I wanted to use
the longer runway for various reasons, so exercising a sharp
look-out and making my radio calls, I proceded to do so.

Sydney, thanks for a nice thread.

At my home base it's routine for me to be on the turf runway, into the
wind, while everyone else uses the pavement with a 90-degree
crosswind.

You are PIC. It's not just your right but your responsibility to do
what you think is safest for you and your airplane. If somebody else
has a different idea about what's safe for you, listen to what they
might say, think about it, and then go back to Rule #1: You are PIC.

-Dave Russell
8KCAB

p.s. I posted a few months back about somebody who didn't think like I
do. He taxied right out in front of me while I was rolling for
take-off, oblivious to the fact that there actually was a runway
aligned with the wind. It was a very close thing. Even now I know I
was right to use the runway pointed into the wind, but that wouldn't
have saved us if I'd hit him. I don't know what this is supposed to
mean, but somehow it feels relevant. :-|

Sound like you did ok. You made your radio calls and watched for
traffic. When you thought it would be a problem you switched runways.
You said 2 other planes joined. If they did not like what they heard
(planes
using 2 differnt runways) they could have not entered the pattern for
practice.
Ron


(Snowbird) wrote in message . com...
What's the general viewpoint here?

A non-towered airport near us has two runways, shaped
like an "L". Totally flat, no obstructions to vision--
airplane at the departure end for one can see airplanes
at the other. Left traffic both, so the downwind for the
short runway crosses the longer runway at midfield.
The possible conflict points are simultaneous T/O,
or crosswind for the short runway/downwind for the
long.

Today at that airport, one aircraft was in the pattern for
the shorter runway, which the wind favored. I wanted to use
the longer runway for various reasons, so exercising a sharp
look-out and making my radio calls, I proceded to do so.
Later another plane joined him.

There were no conflicts AFAIK. Everyone was doing a good job
making transmissions and keeping track of each other.
It was a good exercise for me since our new home airport has
a similar setup with both runways frequently in use -- and the
added complication of right traffic in one direction, left in
the other. I'm still getting used to it.

When a fourth aircraft called in, I decided the spatial
relationships were getting complicated and taxied over to
the short run way, did one short field landing which my instructor
would have liked and I didn't (power on), and headed for the
horizon.

Question is: how would most pilots here feel about this?
Would you feel I should have just joined with traffic
for the shorter runway? In terms of my plane's capabilities
and mine, it's plenty of runway, no reason why not. It just
wasn't what I preferred initially.

I used to be based at that airport and it wasn't uncommon, if
I was in the pattern for the short runway, to have other planes
land on the long. It never bothered me except when someone
came straight-in and obviously had no idea where the rest of
the traffic was. But one of the planes in the pattern seemed
to indicate, um, let's say displeasure with me. That doesn't
concern me -- people have to say whatever they feel improves
safety and presents them in a professional light, *hee* *hee*,
and I kept my rule of "don't argue on freq. just don't and
say you didn't"

However I figure I should ask for a sanity-check on whether
what's SOP at home is regarded as inappropriate or rude
elsewhere.

Cheers,
Sydney

Below is an email from the Luscombe List. I think the contents pertain to
this issue, and in light of the current media hype, I think it's rather
profound.

Deb
--
1946 Luscombe 8A (His)
1948 Luscombe 8E (Hers)
1954 Cessna 195B, restoring (Ours)
Jasper, Ga. (JZP)

Good morning, list...
I went flying late yesterday after work.
Drove an hour on the Interstate to get to the airport.
Along with three thousand of my best friends...with attitudes.
Did not ask anyone.
Did not tell anyone.
Just unlocked the hangar, did a good preflight, pushed it out on the ramp,
tied the little beast down, swung the prop., and climbed in.
I could have gone anywhere the fuel on board would have let me...about 250
miles, according to the stick I dipped into the gas tanks.
Really high-tech. stuff.
I chose to stay in the pattern and work on my crash and goes.
Talked on the radio to the other planes with radios.
Or the ones that chose to turn their radios on.
An experimental aircraft announced his arrival (Thorp T-18, I believe from
the bent-wings) and flew in to join in the jolly circuits around the runway.
A Cutlass, a Cherokee, the requisite 152, the experimental, and myself all
stayed together, and all got along quite nicely going around and around.
A Skylane joined us for an instrument approach, and we all worked around
him.
A Piper Cub (L-4?) was doing touch and goes on the grass parallel to the
runway...no radio, camouflaged paint, never got above 100', never further
than 500' from the runway, he made four landing to every one of ours.
He doin' his thing.
They doin' theirs.
Me doin' mine.
All enjoying the privilege and freedom of flight.
In the United States of America.
(Actually, God's country here in Texas)
All of us without the luxury of lights quit flying when it got dark.
Duh.
No problem.
No government "controlled airport".
Just common sense, cooperation, good judgment, and respect for each other.
And, get this...I actually carried my pocket knife in my jeans.
Visited with my airport hangar neighbors...you all know the
drill...altogether an enjoyable evening.
Pushed the semi-shiny little thing back in the hangar.
Locked the door (what a concept).
Looked at my watch, and drove home during Dan Rather Time.
I wonder how much longer until this kind of a day becomes just a memory?
bye,
Howard
48-A, square, bare, no pants.

Below is an email from the Luscombe List.

How do you get on the Luscombe List?

thanks,
Mitch
Luscombe 8A
Cessna 195 project

How do you get on the Luscombe List?

thanks,
Mitch
Luscombe 8A
Cessna 195 project

Mitch,

You must offer at least 12 virgins to our moderator, Dan McNeil, preferably
Victoria Secret Models. If those can't be found, you can offer to help
polish his 8TF.

Otherwise, try this: Yahoo! Groups Links

a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/luscombe-silvaire/

b.. To subscribe to this group, send an email to:


This is a very active list which topics varying from the technical to the
absurd. BTW, a fine assortment of airplanes you have there!

Deb

--
1946 Luscombe 8A (His)
1948 Luscombe 8E (Hers)
1954 Cessna 195B, restoring (Ours)
Jasper, Ga. (JZP)

"Henry and Debbie McFarland" wrote in message
.net...
Below is an email from the Luscombe List.

Good morning, list...
I went flying late yesterday after work.
I chose to stay in the pattern and work on my crash and goes.

Speaking of crash and goes, Max, the (ex) Concorde pilot, put
his prize-winning Luscombe down hard yesterday on the strip
in a crosswind while I was there. Broke the tailwheel off and
damaged the rudder and elevators. :-(

There's a couple of pictures of his very nice Luscombe on the CAA
website.
http://www.caa.co.uk/srg/aircraft_re...nfo/search.asp
and type in LUSI after the G- bit. Pictures at the bottom.

(type in DOGG and you can see a picture of my plane)

Paul

"Paul Sengupta" wrote in message . ..
"Henry and Debbie McFarland" wrote in message
.net...
Below is an email from the Luscombe List.

Good morning, list...
I went flying late yesterday after work.
I chose to stay in the pattern and work on my crash and goes.

Speaking of crash and goes, Max, the (ex) Concorde pilot, put
his prize-winning Luscombe down hard yesterday on the strip
in a crosswind while I was there. Broke the tailwheel off and
damaged the rudder and elevators. :-(

There's a couple of pictures of his very nice Luscombe on the CAA
website.
http://www.caa.co.uk/srg/aircraft_re...nfo/search.asp
and type in LUSI after the G- bit. Pictures at the bottom.

(type in DOGG and you can see a picture of my plane)

Paul

Nice colours Paul, RAF training but what year?

"Jeb" wrote in message
om...
"Paul Sengupta" wrote in message
. ..
(type in DOGG and you can see a picture of my plane)

Nice colours Paul, RAF training but what year?

Ah, there's a story behind this. It was painted in these colours
in 1997. It's unique. As you know (explanation for others
reading this) the RAF found the best colour for conspicuity was
black. Thus they decided to repaint their training fleet in black.

They experimented first of all on their old Bulldogs. Three (as
far as I know) were painted in a black colour with yellow over
the top (as seen on http://www.warbirdalley.com/bulldog.htm).
Two of these are in the UK, one in the US. They decided not
to repaint the rest of the Bulldog fleet as they'd made the decision
to retire them within a few years.

However...back to mine. Mine was used as the airshow aircraft
and was thus given a colour scheme incorporating the "new" RAF
training colours, black with yellow markings. It was designed by
Paul Margetts, the RAF display pilot as a sunburst aerobatic scheme,
representative of that seen (in different colours) on various aerobatic
aircraft.

I bought my plane off the RAF in 2001. I took that photograph at
RAF Shawbury on the day I picked it up.

More photos of the US black and yellow one, as well as photos of
the "normal" RAF red and white colour:
http://www.scottishaviation.com/photos/

Some more pictures of mine he
http://www.geocities.com/ukdefense/bulldog-uk-1.jpg (not me flying)
http://mysite.freeserve.com/airbase/...ldog/gdogg.jpg
http://mysite.freeserve.com/airbase/...dog/gdogg2.jpg

Paul