Position and Hold at uncontrolled field

"C J Campbell" wrote in message
...

Are you saying that some other aircraft is going to land before the first
has cleared the runway?


What, you wouldn't? Why should I wait for someone to clear the runway
if there is enough room for me to land behind him?

"Newps" wrote in message
news:6wM_b.396854$na.764749@attbi_s04...
What, you wouldn't? Why should I wait for someone to clear the runway
if there is enough room for me to land behind him?

The same reason you take more fuel than the bare minimum, that you clear
obstacles by more than the bare minimum, and start your takeoff roll with
more than the bare minimum of required runway remaining.

It's hard enough to ensure that you will not make any mistakes while
landing, but you don't have any idea what sort of mechanical problems might
occur, such as brake failure. Or, you might have to make a go around at the
last minute that puts the other aircraft right in your way. There's all
sorts of reasons the landing might not go exactly as you expect it to. Why
reduce or eliminate your safety margin when there's absolutely no good
reason to?

The day you attempt to land while someone is still on the runway, and you
find that you can't avoid running into them, you'll understand why you
should wait.

Pete

Peter Duniho wrote:
"Newps" wrote in message
news:6wM_b.396854$na.764749@attbi_s04...

What, you wouldn't? Why should I wait for someone to clear the runway
if there is enough room for me to land behind him?


The same reason you take more fuel than the bare minimum, that you clear
obstacles by more than the bare minimum, and start your takeoff roll with
more than the bare minimum of required runway remaining.

It's hard enough to ensure that you will not make any mistakes while
landing, but you don't have any idea what sort of mechanical problems might
occur, such as brake failure. Or, you might have to make a go around at the
last minute that puts the other aircraft right in your way. There's all
sorts of reasons the landing might not go exactly as you expect it to. Why
reduce or eliminate your safety margin when there's absolutely no good
reason to?

The day you attempt to land while someone is still on the runway, and you
find that you can't avoid running into them, you'll understand why you
should wait.

And yet you land like that at a field with a tower.

"Peter Duniho" wrote in message ...
"Newps" wrote in message
news:6wM_b.396854$na.764749@attbi_s04...
What, you wouldn't? Why should I wait for someone to clear the runway
if there is enough room for me to land behind him?

The same reason you take more fuel than the bare minimum, that you clear
obstacles by more than the bare minimum, and start your takeoff roll with
more than the bare minimum of required runway remaining.

Yes....but I think the point is, there is a spectrum of choices
between "the bare minimum" and landing only on a clear runway,
just as there's a spectrum of choices between "the bare minimum
fuel" and a rule such as "only take off with full tanks".

How much more runway than "the bare minimum" do you want during
takeoff? 10%? 20%? 50%? 100%?

At some point, most of us make operational choices that we're
willing to accept some margin which is more than "the bare minimum",
but less than twice what we need. Where that margin is lies with
the individual pilot. Maybe it's 20% for me and 30% for you. Maybe
vice versa.

OK, now we're landing. How much more runway than "the bare minimum"
do you want? Same operational choices apply. With me so far?

So what's the difference between landing on a 3000 ft runway when
you feel you really only need 1000 ft, vs landing on a 4000 ft
runway with a plane 3000 ft down the runway taxiing off?

Why reduce or eliminate your safety margin when there's
absolutely no good reason to?

Why do you feel there's "absolutely no good reason to"? Maybe
there is...

Cheers,
Sydney

Have seen too often to count.

Big John


On Tue, 24 Feb 2004 07:17:54 -0800, "C J Campbell"
wrote:


"dave" wrote in message
...
I was returning to LOM today and after one plane had landed but not yet
cleared the runway, a pilot at the approach end announced "position and
hold". He taxied into position and waited for the previous aircraft to
clear the runway. He then made a normal departure. I was taught at
uncontrolled fields to never take the runway unless you can depart
promptly. Why? In case an aircraft is landing that you aren't aware
of. You may not be aware of the aircraft because he doesn't have a
radio, he called and you didn't hear him, you can't see him, etc.


Are you saying that some other aircraft is going to land before the first
has cleared the runway?