Keep your hand off the release handle during aero tows!

The real point is that having your hand on the release may save your life,
to me that is a complete no brainer.


Thanks all for the good thoughts and ideas. I just want to make sure everyone remembers the title of this topic and it explicitly stated during aero tows. It is fine that people are talking about winch tows too but please don't confuse the two. They are separate types of operations and require different flying methods to stay as safe as possible. Keep your hand off the release during aero tows.

Thanks,
Bruno - B4

Oh!!!! So it,s OK to let your wingtip run along the ground during an areo
tow launch.?? NO NO NO Pull the bloody release when ever your wing is on
the gound THAT WILL SAVE YOUR LIFE ONE DAY Soggy 16:16 07 October 2013,
wrote:
The real point is that having your hand on the release may save your
life=
,
to me that is a complete no brainer.


Thanks all for the good thoughts and ideas. I just want to make sure
everyo=
ne remembers the title of this topic and it explicitly stated during aero
t=
ows. It is fine that people are talking about winch tows too but please
don=
't confuse the two. They are separate types of operations and require
diffe=
rent flying methods to stay as safe as possible. Keep your hand off the
rel=
ease during aero tows.

Thanks,
Bruno - B4

At 16:16 07 October 2013, wrote:
The real point is that having your hand on the release may save your
life=
,
to me that is a complete no brainer.


Thanks all for the good thoughts and ideas. I just want to make sure
everyo=
ne remembers the title of this topic and it explicitly stated during aero
t=
ows. It is fine that people are talking about winch tows too but please
don=
't confuse the two. They are separate types of operations and require
diffe=
rent flying methods to stay as safe as possible. Keep your hand off the
rel=
ease during aero tows.

Thanks,
Bruno - B4

Yes, it is OK to do that. I've done it a dozen or some times when the tow pilot came to retrieve me and there wasn't anyone to run the wing. It's never been a problem for me, even with a CG equipped ship.

-John, Q3


On Monday, October 7, 2013 2:30:59 PM UTC-4, John Marsh wrote:
Oh!!!! So it,s OK to let your wingtip run along the ground during an areo
tow launch.?? NO NO NO Pull the bloody release when ever your wing is on
the gound THAT WILL SAVE YOUR LIFE ONE DAY Soggy

On Mon, 07 Oct 2013 18:30:59 +0000, John Marsh
wrote:

Oh!!!! So it,s OK to let your wingtip run along the ground during an areo
tow launch.?? NO NO NO Pull the bloody release when ever your wing is on
the gound THAT WILL SAVE YOUR LIFE ONE DAY

Depends on the glider.
For probably 95 percent of the gliders you are correct.

But for instance the AS 22-2 (forerunner if the ASH-25) has absolutely
no aileron control on the first 200 ft of the ground roll, so in most
cases it drops a wing. Since it is usually flown with full water , the
wing tip hits hard and it takes some time to pick the wing up again.

On the other hand, it's got a a tail load of about 120 lbs on the tail
wheel, so it doesn't have the slightest tendency to ground loop.
And with a wing loading of 10.5 lbs / sqft it's not going to take of
inadvertedly either.

So during an aerotow it is possible and safe to pick up the wing
again. In this special glider.

Winch launch is a completely different animal though.

Cheers
Andreas

On Monday, October 7, 2013 12:30:59 PM UTC-6, John Marsh wrote:
Oh!!!! So it,s OK to let your wingtip run along the ground during an areo

tow launch.?? NO NO NO Pull the bloody release when ever your wing is on

the gound THAT WILL SAVE YOUR LIFE ONE DAY Soggy 16:16 07 October 2013,

wrote:

The real point is that having your hand on the release may save your

life=

,

to me that is a complete no brainer.



Lol, Love your enthusiasm John. I promise it is possible to use the release lever without having to hold on to it the entire tow and put yourself in possible danger of an inadvertent release. Of course you release if you drop a wing and can't raise it safely on aero tow. That doesn't mean you need to keep your hand on the thing. In my glider (ASW27) I have my hand on the spoiler to start and then move to flaps and then move to my knee so it is close to the release in case I need to pull early. I can move the hand to the release at any point.

Bruno - B4

Same for me in my LAK-17a except that I lock the spoilers before hookup.
Hand on the flaps which are at negative until I have aileron control and
move the flaps down to thermal position. Hand stays on flap lever (very
close to release) until safely airborne.

I have wheels at the 15 meter tips, at 18 meters, the tips are angled
upwards such that they're parallel with the ground when a "tip" is on the
ground.

We stage on a very wide taxiway with the nose pointed at the taxiway/runway
intersection, maybe 10-15 degrees off runway heading. If a wing is down
and the grass is approaching, we release.

I can't recall how I do it on ground launch since it's been 6 months since I
did one. I'm going back to the dry lake in Nevada for a ground launch
weekend in a couple of weeks and, if this thread is still alive then, I'll
report back.


wrote in message
...
On Monday, October 7, 2013 12:30:59 PM UTC-6, John Marsh wrote:
Oh!!!! So it,s OK to let your wingtip run along the ground during an areo

tow launch.?? NO NO NO Pull the bloody release when ever your wing is on

the gound THAT WILL SAVE YOUR LIFE ONE DAY Soggy 16:16 07 October 2013,

wrote:

The real point is that having your hand on the release may save your

life=

,

to me that is a complete no brainer.



Lol, Love your enthusiasm John. I promise it is possible to use the release
lever without having to hold on to it the entire tow and put yourself in
possible danger of an inadvertent release. Of course you release if you
drop a wing and can't raise it safely on aero tow. That doesn't mean you
need to keep your hand on the thing. In my glider (ASW27) I have my hand on
the spoiler to start and then move to flaps and then move to my knee so it
is close to the release in case I need to pull early. I can move the hand to
the release at any point.

Bruno - B4

On Sunday, October 6, 2013 4:05:57 PM UTC-6, Don Johnstone wrote:

All John says is absolutely correct. The sad fact is that this type of

accident occurs on a fairly regular basis and as yet no one has come up

with a plausible cause. What is clear that the wing drop is a symptom and

requires that the glider is released very early which is why the hand

should be on the release. A similar accident happened at my club a month

back involving a Discus, in that case the pilot was unhurt but the glider

was written off.

What is clear is that once the glider starts to yaw nothing on this earth

is going to stop it except contact with the ground so early release, to

mitigate the inevitable accident, is essential.



The sad fact is the UK hasn't figured out the cause - everyone else has.

On Sunday, October 6, 2013 4:54:35 PM UTC-6, Terry Pitts wrote:
Not a single instructor, check pilot or examiner I flew with in England and Germany ever suggested/required holding the release on a winch launch. I was always told to keep my hand close, but not wrapped around the knob.



Worked well every time.

I think "touching but not gripping" is the best advice.

On Monday, October 7, 2013 2:24:08 AM UTC-6, Don Johnstone wrote:
OK, try sitting in a Schemp Hirth or even and ASW 17/19/20 with the stick
full to the left and try finding the release knob if you do not actually
have your hand on it. The time you have to realise you have a problem and
react is very short, trying to find the release will take longer than the
time you have.

If reaching the release is difficult, it gets an extension installed ASAP. (That a minor modification not requiring paperwork.) The really bonehead action is to continue flying a glider where the pilot can't reach the release. does that idea actually occur to anyone in the UK?



Actually the glider should point down the direction if the initial cable
run, of course that should be the same as the direct line to the winch.

Only the UK still seems to be using steel cable. Almost everyone else is using "plastic rope" (Dyneema) Plastic rope straightens out like a bowstring as soon as tension is applied so it's always in a "direct line to the winch" which means POINT THE GLIDER AT THE WINCH - NO EXCEPTIONS.


Not so, anyone with any experience of winch launching would know that the
time taken for a stop signal to be sent, received by the winch driver and
reacted on is way more than the time taken for the event you are trying to
prevent being over.

No one suggests the pilot shouldn't pull the release. But, clearly, in the case of the UK, that isn't working. You need a backup plan to stop the launch if the pilot doesn't act.

Wing drop is not the cause of the problem, it is a symptom. The primary
problem is yaw and increased acceleration will exacerbate this.

WHAT!! Acceleration causes wing drop? Causes yaw? That's as absurd as it gets.

To a certain extent this type of accident is an operating hazard.

In aviation safety, this is one of the hazardous thought processes called "resignation".

Again, no one says a pilot shouldn't have a hand on the release and should pull it if the launch goes wrong but a fair question is, "How's that working out?"

Giving a skilled observer at the start point an option to instantly stop the launch if the pilot doesn't act would have saved this pilots life. FIGURE OUT HOW TO DO IT! Or, just ask the Germans.

The totally absurd aspect of this is the UK is has a longstanding problem with "cartwheel" accidents like this one. A problem not seen to anywhere near the same degree in the rest of the world. Yet, your response it to lecture everybody else on doing it your way.