I want to buy a plane by year-end but they're not making it easy.

Ross Oliver wrote:
Why don't you just go rent one for an hour or two? Piper and
Cirrus rentals shouldn't be too hard to find. A Tiger might
take a little more leg work. Renting with a CFI has the added
advantage of counting the time toward "time in type" that your
insurer will inevitably require.

Old Pipers aren't hard to find. New Pipers probably can be done.
I can think of only one operation around here that has a Cirrus
for rent, and it's not really set up all that well for the casual
walk in.

Matt Barrow wrote:

Three years ago I bought (for cash) an B36TC ("Pre-owned") and the broker
damn near gave me a BJ just to go up with him.

Brokers are a different story than the manufacturers. They're just
flying someone elses aircraft (and frequently at the sellers expense).
The broker I purchased the Navion through was more than happy to let
me fly it. He didn't even want to be in the right seat (I had brought
along an instructor of my own).

markjen wrote:


The situation isn't exactly the same, but not many car dealers give demos to
customers who don't yet have their driver's license.

For another reason. Up until recently here the main reason they wanted to
see your drivers license is so they could grab the SSN off it so they could
go run a quick credit check on you.

My wife was surprised they let me go drive a $45,000 vehicle without even
the salesman along (and I pointed out that they had already determined that
I was good for it). We even drove the thing off the lot with temporary
tags and a "promise" to come back and give them a check for the down payment.

It is just part of an old saying:

"All buyers are liars, all sellers are thieves"

Mike
MU-2

"Matt Whiting" wrote in message
...
Steve Foley wrote:

I am a licensed real estate agent. You would be amazed at some of the
people
walking in planning to buy a $200,000 home but have bad credit, no
income,
$25,000 in credit card debt, etc.

I learned pretty quickly not to bother with someone who isn't
pre-qualified.

There is a saying in the business "Buyers are Liars".

That must be the definition of the pot calling the kettle black! :-)

I rank real estate agents right along side used car salesman...

Matt

Steve Foley wrote:

I learned pretty quickly not to bother with someone who isn't
pre-qualified.

There is a saying in the business "Buyers are Liars".


Well...

When I first moved into this area (NJ) with my shortly-to-be-wife, we went
first to a real estate agency to find a place to rent. They wanted us to
fill out all sorts of nonsense before we could even talk to someone to ask
if they'd anything that fit our (rather specific) criteria. When we pushed
the idea that we should know they've something for us before we waste our
time, we were told pretty much what you've written.

We walked. We tell everyone to avoid that place. Or we used to; they're
gone now (it's been years since they disappeared).

We found another place and dealt with them. They treated us royally even
through we were renting some (by their standards) dinky little place. So
we used them when we bought our townhouse. And we used them again when we
bought our house.

At least two pairs of friends also used them on our recommendation, buying
fairly large expensive homes (one of which is downright incredible!).

They're still in business, BTW.

When we first dealt with that better agency, I was a little uncomfortable at
just how well we were treated. Didn't they realize how little we were
spending? From my current perspective, I see the wisdom in their behavior
and I carry that lesson into my own business.

- Andrew

-
"Bill J" wrote in message

My student bought a Lancair before he had his ticket. No prob lem oh!

Wow, that's a lot of airplane for a new pilot, isn't it?

-c

"Marty from Sunny Florida" wrote in message
news:grwrd.15069

The 180HP Cessna is nice, but my vote is on the Tiger. Not only is it a ton
of fun to
fly, it looks very tight and sporty, unlike the 'stationwagon in the air'

Having flown both myself, I agree. The 180HP 172 is like flying a sedan.
The Tiger is much sportier.

-c

"T.Roger" wrote in message
. com...
I don't have my ticket yet -- and I'm really committed because I want to
buy
my own plane to train and fly -- and I want to take advantage of the tax
write-off about to expire at year end.

I've been at this since August.
But, hell, they're not making it easy.

All I've asked of Cirrus, Piper and Tiger is if I can demo their damned
planes before I buy. But if you don't have your ticket they don't want to
know you. They take the position that I should secure the financing for
the
particular plane before I demo. I take the position that I'm not going to
waste my time if I'm not in love with the plane. I tell them that I'm
relegated to buying a C172 because that's the only plane I know and
they're
not making it easy for me to consider anything else. They take the
position
that "...every customer who's bought their 'so-and-so-brand-plane' has
never
regretted it and has never gone back to a C172. I say: kiss my a**: if I'm
going to effort to run around trying to convince a bank to finance my
purchase @ $200,000 or more (you know what that's like) then I want to
know
what in hell I'm buying!! They're sort of saying: marry me and then
you'll
find out if you love me.

So far, I haven't had one demo since I started the search in August.
I thought GA was hurting; I guess not.

I train in C172's, and I guess that's what Cirrus, Piper and Tiger want me
to buy because they don't seem interested in my business.


It is probably too late now but when asked for financial information that I
think is unjustified, I have always jsut said: "No, I am not going to
provide that". I am fairly certain that nobody with any real net worth
would disclose their financials to a salesman.

Mike
MU-2

"Ron Natalie" wrote in message
...
markjen wrote:


The situation isn't exactly the same, but not many car dealers give
demos to
customers who don't yet have their driver's license.

For another reason. Up until recently here the main reason they wanted
to
see your drivers license is so they could grab the SSN off it so they
could
go run a quick credit check on you.

My wife was surprised they let me go drive a $45,000 vehicle without even
the salesman along (and I pointed out that they had already determined
that
I was good for it). We even drove the thing off the lot with temporary
tags and a "promise" to come back and give them a check for the down
payment.


I don't think anyone is allowed to run a credit check with out your
permission. Not all states use a ssn as a DL number.

"Mike Rapoport" wrote in message
link.net...

"T.Roger" wrote in message
. com...
I don't have my ticket yet -- and I'm really committed because I want to
buy
my own plane to train and fly -- and I want to take advantage of the tax
write-off about to expire at year end.

I've been at this since August.
But, hell, they're not making it easy.

All I've asked of Cirrus, Piper and Tiger is if I can demo their damned
planes before I buy. But if you don't have your ticket they don't want
to
know you. They take the position that I should secure the financing for
the
particular plane before I demo. I take the position that I'm not going
to
waste my time if I'm not in love with the plane. I tell them that I'm
relegated to buying a C172 because that's the only plane I know and
they're
not making it easy for me to consider anything else. They take the
position
that "...every customer who's bought their 'so-and-so-brand-plane' has
never
regretted it and has never gone back to a C172. I say: kiss my a**: if
I'm
going to effort to run around trying to convince a bank to finance my
purchase @ $200,000 or more (you know what that's like) then I want to
know
what in hell I'm buying!! They're sort of saying: marry me and then
you'll
find out if you love me.

So far, I haven't had one demo since I started the search in August.
I thought GA was hurting; I guess not.

I train in C172's, and I guess that's what Cirrus, Piper and Tiger want
me
to buy because they don't seem interested in my business.


It is probably too late now but when asked for financial information that
I
think is unjustified, I have always jsut said: "No, I am not going to
provide that". I am fairly certain that nobody with any real net worth
would disclose their financials to a salesman.

Mike
MU-2



Nope not to the sales man but maybe to a finance manager!