Why does PW-5 get no respect?

The selection was based on much more than handling or aesthetics.
Cost, licensing for manufacture, home building options, long-term
factory support...

The point is not which glider was selected, but that any selection
would have failed. Perhaps the PW-5 kept the dream alive longer than
another, perhaps not. Unfortunately, the dream wasn't particularly
suited to the sport. Too few pilots, too many choices. As you
observed, for half the price of a PW-5, a newbie can buy a Libelle and
fly competitively in the sports class. Why buy a less desireable
glider at twice the price, then limit your opportunities for learning
(you need enough performance to keep up with your betters... it takes
time and proximity for their experience to rub off). We already had a
single-type class in the US. And while it was successful, it was
fueled more by camaraderie than competitive zeal. For a quarter the
price of a PeeWee, you could (and still can) join the fun. Though even
the 1-26ers are in decline, though no less enthusiastic.

(Chris OCallaghan) wrote in message . com...
The selection was based on much more than handling or aesthetics.
Cost, licensing for manufacture, home building options, long-term
factory support...

And how many homebuilt PW-5s have been completed? Or for that matter,
it seems the factory support has been a bit iffy?

The point is not which glider was selected, but that any selection
would have failed. (snip)

Good point, unfortunately. If they used the sailing model for
one-design classes, they completely missed the point. The popular
one-designs in sailing are either relatively inexpensive (such as
Lasers) so beginners can easily get into racing (Sorry, the PW-5 is
not inexpensive!), or very high performance and/or very expensive
(Finn, America's cup etc) so that they attract the serious racers. So
the World class concept was doomed unless it sanctioned a hot racing
ship (let's say LS-8), or came up with a design that 18 year olds
could afford to buy (like a used 1-26).

Obviously, neither happened. Some of the other criteria are bogus.
Homebuilding! Give me a break. Racers do not want to spend their time
building it, they want to be out flying it so they can win! The
emphasis should have been on mass production, not homebuilding.

And unfortunately, aethetics do count a lot in this sport. Sorry all
you PW-5 fans out there, but it just doesn't look like a racing
glider, by current standards. So most serious racers just blow it off
(probably unfortunately, since in the right conditions I'm sure it's a
lot of fun to race!).

If it ever gets common and inexpensive enough (think 1-26) it may then
have a chance, by default. I hope so, because nothing else seems to
be out there in sufficient numbers yet.

Our experience out here in AZ is that several pilots (both new glider
pilots and experienced racers) bought PW-5s a few years ago - and
after a few seasons most got rid of them and either moved up to higher
performance used ships or motorgliders!

Hopefully the PW-5 will have a future as a 1-26 replacement in club
and commercial rental fleets (in the US at least).

Kirk

Kirk Stant wrote:
...
So the World class concept was doomed unless it sanctioned a hot racing
ship (let's say LS-8), or came up with a design that 18 year olds
could afford to buy (like a used 1-26).
...

The second possibility doesn't really exist. Used ships can't be a World
Class since their availablity depends on the used market. Building new
1-26s, if anyone would be sufficiently mad to try that, would bring these
new ships in the same price range as other new ships, i.e. not for the
average 18 year olds, and there is no way at the present time that any
new built glider would be affordable for them (or for anybody of any age
without higher than average income).

Robert Ehrlich wrote in message ...
Kirk Stant wrote:
...
So the World class concept was doomed unless it sanctioned a hot racing
ship (let's say LS-8), or came up with a design that 18 year olds
could afford to buy (like a used 1-26).
...

The second possibility doesn't really exist. Used ships can't be a World
Class since their availablity depends on the used market. Building new
1-26s, if anyone would be sufficiently mad to try that, would bring these
new ships in the same price range as other new ships, i.e. not for the
average 18 year olds, and there is no way at the present time that any
new built glider would be affordable for them (or for anybody of any age
without higher than average income).


Robert, you are absolutely correct. What I was trying to get across
was that unless the cost of the new World Class glider was about the
same as the cost of a used 20 year old 1-26, it would be hard to get
any real interest started in it.

I must admit that I havn't flown a PW-5 yet (planning on checking one
out this spring) but have some time in the old 1-26 - on a hot day,
with the sports canopy option (open canopy), it is a real hoot to fly.
No performance to speak of, but still a lot of fun. Maybe what
should have been done is to select the 1-26 as the world class glider!

Naaah... never happen...

Anyway, what is the response to the PW-5 in France these days?

Kirk

Zero.

--
Bert Willing

ASW20 "TW"


....

Anyway, what is the response to the PW-5 in France these days?

Kirk

In article ,
"Bert Willing" wrote:
Anyway, what is the response to the PW-5 in France these days?
Zero.

While here in New Zealand it is the numerically most popular glider at
the moment, and possibly of all time (may be close if you lump together
all varients of the Ka6).

-- Bruce

Anyway, what is the response to the PW-5 in France these days?

I don't know if it's current, but here you a
http://members.lycos.co.uk/steve_smyk/EuropeanDN.htm
Just scroll down for France

Jarek

Well, of course there are some of these things around, but I don't know
anybody who is eager to fly one, let alone buy...

The average, low-end single seater you would fly in a French club is a
Pégase, and if you want to race, there are plenty of competitions where you
can do that with Libelles, Pégases, LS4 and whatever, from a regional level
up to european Championships. These are no single-design contests, but who
gives a ****.

If you want to buy a glider in Europe with a limited budget, 15-20kEuros
bring you a long way, and the idea to buy a performance-limited nutshell
which then is also the most ugliest glider ever designed in composite seems
to be just ridiculous.

The concept may have had a chance in countries where the local glider market
is not well developed.

--
Bert Willing

ASW20 "TW"


"Spider" a écrit dans le message de
...
Anyway, what is the response to the PW-5 in France these days?

I don't know if it's current, but here you a
http://members.lycos.co.uk/steve_smyk/EuropeanDN.htm
Just scroll down for France

Jarek

95 or 96 in North America flown by happy pilots -- clubs and private

Even 20 plus in little Austria --

Bert Willing wrote:
Well, of course there are some of these things around, but I don't know
anybody who is eager to fly one, let alone buy...

In article ,
Charles Yeates wrote:

95 or 96 in North America flown by happy pilots -- clubs and private

Even 20 plus in little Austria --

And I think 25 or so here in NZ, making it the numerically strongest
glider on the register.

I don't know what the scorn is about. I fly Grob twins, Janus, Libelle
and PW-5's. I prefer the Janus for just zooming around having fun, and
the PW-5 for going to contests, because then there are lots of people
flying exactly the same aircraft so when I lose I know it's my fault,
not the gliders (and when I *win* ... :-)

-- Bruce