Date of effect now 1 April 2004 for revised IGC-approval for certain legacy types of GNSS flight recorder

Robert Danewid wrote:
This is not just a case of security for loggers, this is a case of bad
thinking and bad philosophy by our elected leaders.

Oh, I get it, because the elected leaders don't agree with you, it must
be "bad thinking and bad philosophy". I know what you mean, that's
exactly how I feel about the present administration in Washington D.C. 8^)

Marc

That is my opinion, not yours of course. Your argument is an argument
you use when you are running out of arguments.

Robert



Marc Ramsey wrote:
Robert Danewid wrote:

This is not just a case of security for loggers, this is a case of bad
thinking and bad philosophy by our elected leaders.


Oh, I get it, because the elected leaders don't agree with you, it must
be "bad thinking and bad philosophy". I know what you mean, that's
exactly how I feel about the present administration in Washington D.C. 8^)

Marc

And may I add, I am not sure the elected leaders do not agree with me.
After all what happened in 1995 - 97, and how this topic was presented
in Prague, I am convinced that GFAC is living its own life and, although
putting in a massive work to keep gliding free from potential GPS
hackers, I am not sure it is good for the gliding movement.

Robert

Robert Danewid wrote:
Marc Ramsey wrote:
Robert Danewid wrote:

This is not just a case of security for loggers, this is a case of
bad thinking and bad philosophy by our elected leaders.

Oh, I get it, because the elected leaders don't agree with you, it
must be "bad thinking and bad philosophy". I know what you mean,
that's exactly how I feel about the present administration in
Washington D.C. 8^)

Marc

That is my opinion, not yours of course. Your argument is an argument
you use when you are running out of arguments.

Robert

No, Robert, it's an argument I use when there is no longer any point to
arguing. I think everyone understands that you don't like what's being
done. What, exactly do you suggest doing differently? In particular,
how would you approach the problem of documenting world record flights?

Marc

Well...
looking at the response of this decision I remember what
the Swiss IGC delegate, Mr. Nietlispach, told me once,
because I was trying to forward a proposal to the IGC:

quote
"We (the IGC) tell the gliding community what to do,
not reverse!"
quote

And it does not look like anything would have changed
since then. The IGC has lost track with the needs of the
gliding community and acts like the Vatican.

And when the IGC decided not to handle gliding records
of motorised and non-motorised gliders separately any-
more it laid the grave stone to pure gliding records. I am
sure, that in 5 years no gliding records will exist anymore,
not been flown without a retractable motor.

So - why worry about the "revised IGC approvals" when
you fly a glider without a motor?

Because we cannot be sure, if not tomorrow the IGC
makes the next step to exclude existing loggers to fly
a thousand km and up as well.....
Anything is possible

"We (the IGC) tell the gliding community what to do,
not reverse!"

Ch. Hostettler

____________________________________________

"Ian Strachan" wrote in message
...
From: Chairman, IGC GNSS Flight Recorder Approval Committee (GFAC)

Subject: Date of effect now 1 April 2004 for revised IGC-approval
conditions for certain legacy types of GNSS flight recorder.

An announcement was recently made to the effect that a number of types
of legacy recorders would have the terms of their IGC-approval adjusted
to the new "all IGC badge and distance diploma" level. This level
excludes evidence for world record flights.

Originally the date on which this was to take effect was 1 January 2004.
After the announcement a number of questions and comments have been
received. Questions have been answered and comments have been discussed
by the IGC GFA and GNSS Committees and with members of the IGC Bureau.

There was a consensus that the January date might be too early for some
pilots wishing to attempt world records and using one of the affected
recorder types to make the change. The President of IGC has therefore
ruled that the date of effect will be put back to 1 April 2004. This
gives more time for owners who may wish to attempt world records to
obtain other types of recorder, and is also a convenient date between
the main soaring seasons in the southern and northern hemispheres.

Here is a copy of part of the original announcement with the change of
date at the end:

There are currently 24 models of IGC-approved GNSS recorder, from 10
different manufacturers. GFAC has completed a review of legacy
recorders, the IGC-approvals of which go back as far as 1996. The
following principles have been agreed for the futu

For world record flight claims, it is not considered suitable to have
recorders with one or more of the following characteristics:
1. No security microswitch or equivalent (this operates if the case is
opened).
2. Without electronic security giving the strength of systems such as
RSA (public/private key systems) as assessed by GFAC and its experts in
electronic security.
3. No immediate manufacturer support (out of production and the
original manufacturer either no longer exists or is no longer dealing
with them).

Negotiations with appropriate manufacturers have been going on for some
time, and revised IGC-approval documents have been circulated to them.
Types of recorders affected will have IGC-approvals for the new "all IGC
badge flights and distance diploma" level.

Types of recorders affected with the main reason:
Cambridge 10, 20 and 25 (not RSA or equivalent strength).
Filser LX20 first batch (not RSA or equivalent strength, no
microswitch).
Peschges VP8 (no microswitch, original manufacturer understood to be no
longer in the recorder business).
Print Technik GR1000 (not RSA or equivalent strength, original
manufacturer no longer in the recorder business).
Zander GP940. This type of recorder is also under consideration but no
decision has been made at this time, if it is to be added to the above
list this will be announced as soon as it is made.

Timescale
The above changes to the "all IGC badges and distance diploma" level
will take effect on 1 April 2004.

The only pilots affected will be those planning to attempt world record
flights from this date, for which other types of IGC-approved flight
recorder must be used that are IGC-approved without flight limitations.

--
Ian Strachan
Chairman IGC GFA Committee

Right on Christian. It’s time that the IGC bureaucracy, with its
expensive digs in Switzerland, its authoritarian ivory tower approach
and its penchant for spending other people’s money was brought
back to reality. This is that world-wide, gliding is an expensive,
shrinking sport, and that they would be better off addressing this
vital issue than creating more cost by unilaterally and
heavy-handedly legislating about logger security. Do barographs and
cameras have RSA level security?

U. Werneburg

"CH" wrote in message ...
Well...
looking at the response of this decision I remember what
the Swiss IGC delegate, Mr. Nietlispach, told me once,
because I was trying to forward a proposal to the IGC:

quote
"We (the IGC) tell the gliding community what to do,
not reverse!"
quote

And it does not look like anything would have changed
since then. The IGC has lost track with the needs of the
gliding community and acts like the Vatican.

And when the IGC decided not to handle gliding records
of motorised and non-motorised gliders separately any-
more it laid the grave stone to pure gliding records. I am
sure, that in 5 years no gliding records will exist anymore,
not been flown without a retractable motor.

So - why worry about the "revised IGC approvals" when
you fly a glider without a motor?

Because we cannot be sure, if not tomorrow the IGC
makes the next step to exclude existing loggers to fly
a thousand km and up as well.....
Anything is possible

"We (the IGC) tell the gliding community what to do,
not reverse!"

Ch. Hostettler

On 1 Dec 2003 05:33:24 -0800, (Ulrich) wrote:

Right on Christian. It’s time that the IGC bureaucracy, with its
expensive digs in Switzerland, its authoritarian ivory tower approach
and its penchant for spending other people’s money was brought
back to reality. This is that world-wide, gliding is an expensive,
shrinking sport, and that they would be better off addressing this
vital issue than creating more cost by unilaterally and
heavy-handedly legislating about logger security. Do barographs and
cameras have RSA level security?

U. Werneburg

"CH" wrote in message ...
Well...
looking at the response of this decision I remember what
the Swiss IGC delegate, Mr. Nietlispach, told me once,
because I was trying to forward a proposal to the IGC:

quote
"We (the IGC) tell the gliding community what to do,
not reverse!"
quote
Reminds me of what the late Roger Woods once told me about the first
time he was Australian delegate to the IGC. He was taken aside and
told " forget the people who sent you here, here WE decide what
happens".

Do you really want the IGC to address the problem of the shrinking
sport of gliding given their "successful" track record?

How about we all send our badges back to the IGC? We know what we've
done and nobody else cares.

Mike Borgelt

Good idea!

/Janos

ps: more than 6 months ago I requested a small modification (extend GPS
type list) in the EW logger approval document but still there is no
change...this modification is also supported by the original document...
it could reduce the cost of an IGC approved logger system, but who
cares...

Mike Borgelt wrote:

Reminds me of what the late Roger Woods once told me about the first
time he was Australian delegate to the IGC. He was taken aside and
told " forget the people who sent you here, here WE decide what
happens".

Do you really want the IGC to address the problem of the shrinking
sport of gliding given their "successful" track record?

How about we all send our badges back to the IGC? We know what we've
done and nobody else cares.

Mike Borgelt