Radio advice - newbie

Cloud flying with gliders is legal in Switzerland, UK and Germany (although
restricted). It's not legal in France.

--
Bert Willing

ASW20 "TW"


"Chris Nicholas" a écrit dans le
message de ...
I understand that in most European countries, glider flying in cloud is
prohibited (though occasionally done by some lawbreakers, I have heard).

In Poland it also can be done legally, as well as night flying.

Regards,


--
Janusz Kesik

visit www.leszno.pl - home of the www.css-leszno.it.pl

Kirk Stant wrote:

Mark, your attitude scares me a bit. Sorry, but flying should be a
bit intimidating -

Nowhere in my post did I say hang gliding or ultralight
flying, especially given the current rules, was safe. I simply
don't have enough time doing either to evaluate that. My
comments only referred to barriers to entry to the sport,
i.e. "hassle factor." If you think there was any claim
in that post that evaluated the safety or fatality rate in
either sport, please reread the post.

The whole ultralight scene totally scares me. Not that the majority
of ultralight pilots don't fly relatively safely, but the attitude
that "I can just jump into it and fly around, just like an ATV with
wings" leads to some really scary flying - and some sad, stupid,
unnecessary deaths, like we just had out at our glider field a few
weeks ago.

Can you tell me of any aviation accident with a pilot of
any training level that wasn't "sad, stupid, and unecessary" ?

As far as your particular affinity for ultralights goes, I hear
ya. I must say I spent sevral days and a lot of kicking dust
before flying it. I approached it just like any new aircraft:
read the manual, read the common accidents, inspect the craft
(castle nuts without cotter keys, is this wire supposed to be unloaded?,
what about negative G's? Stall speed? Crosswinds? Turbulence?
C.G.? This CG business was a real biggie).
Then find an A&P and BFI with umpteen accident free hours (any
idiot can have hours, how many are accident free?).
There were several other things that made me SUPER scared (no
shoulder harnesses or parachutes), and
some mistakes (open cockpit means hats get blown about and double
goggles are a good idea, good thing I wasn't the pilot). There
was also one amazing confidence builder (ballistic parachute).
If you haven't read about saves made by these things, I highly
recommend it. I don't think I'll become an avid ultralight
pilot, but it was an AMAZING eye opener and I'd highly recommend
one flight with someone you've evaluated to your level of
comfort. A wing that stalls at 18 mph is an amazing thing.


Don't get me wrong, I'm not in favor of useless regulation - what I
believe is needed (in all flying activities) is a lot of good training
and knowledge about what can kill you. Thats what all the check rides
are about - and without them anyone is just playing russian roulette
with wings.


I'm convinced the most interesting training absolutely does not
improve safety, but only maintains the same level of safety
while improving capability. Student pilots solo because they
are safe, then train to fly further, higher, and with passengers,
and in more interesting wind and weather (increasing capability).

I believe the FAA should divide a LOT of PTS stuff out as
endorsements. I believe all of these things should be
endorsements, and NOT part of the PTS for any
Sport Pilot license:

1. Radio use
2. Night flying
3. Instrument training
4. Airspace flying (D, C, B, A)
5. Cross-country flying
6. Flight at altitude over 12,500
7. Assembly/disassembly of aircraft (I mean beyond preflight)

I think the FAA has, over time, divided out a lot of stuff
as endorsements, and I think this is great. Launches,
high-perf, complex, tailwheel, pressurization, IPC,
solo in new cat/class, etc. I'm really excited about this
trend. When I talk about "hassle factor" I'm really
saying that it's a shame that a newbie pilot can't take
a passenger up in a 2-33 without a checkride covering 1-7.

Hassle factor? Name one really worthwhile activity that doesn't
require lots of time, dedication, money, sweat, studying, etc.

Sex. Think about it...

That's what makes it worthwhile! Who do you think gets more outa glider
flight, the guy who shows up at 9 am, rigs his ship, washes every bit
of it (even a 1-26!), takes the lowest tow possible, flies regardless
of the conditions (as long as it's safe) as long as he can, then puts
his ship away and hangs around BS-ing with the locals watching the sun
set - or the guy who only comes out to the field on a perfect day,
reserves a plane from a commercial operator, takes a high tow, flies
exactly 1.0 locally, lands, pays his bill, then leaves?

I think the pilot should chose how much he wants to get out of
flying, and if his flying simply doesn't involve 1-7, requiring
it is a burden. I know one pilot who has a Waco and a Citabria.
He was burdened by the 1-7, and the high-performance endorsement
was off the mark (he needed it to fly a 210 hp with fixed prop).

This guy flies day VFR in G and E airspace locally, and never
sees 5000 feet. He just loves going up at every chance
and making donuts in the sky.

Who gets more out of gliding is not mine to determine. If
someone likes a 1-26 because it can be left in the rain and
not disassembled (and doesn't even know how) then jolly for him.
If someone else wants to put lights on his glider,
fly in clouds at 22,000 feet, and go 500km+, hey, that's
cool too...

When flight
currency requirements start becoming hard to maintain, it's a good
sign to stop pretending to be current in that activity and stick to
something simpler.

I couldn't agree more. I've largely given up trying to
maintain my multi-engine currency, and my IFR is rusty enough
that my personal minimums are way up (I won't do an ILS to mins).
Trying to keep all those currencies has just been too
much of a hassle...

Think about it - a lot of times the instructor
giving the checkride has less time and experience than the pilot
getting the check - so teach him a thing or two!


Good idea, I hope so.

Bah Humbug (It's that season again - havn't flown in a couple of
weeks)

Merry Chrismas! I think for Christmas I might be getting
a tiny baby girl. What's in your stocking? :-P


Kirk
66

Mark
35 (but I always tell the ladies I'm 21)


"rec.aviation.soaring - BS free since Dec 11, 2003 at 10:55 PST"

(Mark James Boyd) wrote in news:3fd8bce1$1@darkstar:

Kirk Stant wrote:

clip

The whole ultralight scene totally scares me. Not that the majority
of ultralight pilots don't fly relatively safely, but the attitude
that "I can just jump into it and fly around, just like an ATV with
wings" leads to some really scary flying - ... more clip

C.G.? This CG business was a real biggie).

I only tried the ultralight thing twice... 1st time I climbed in with the
apparently competent instructor and was flying around having a blast until
he cut the power back to idle and I had to push the stick all the way
forward and add power to avoid a stall. I hate to think what would have
happened if we had lost power. 2nd time I went to another operation. The
resident instructor was walking around with a bad limp. I didn't ask, but
he volunteered that he had crashed a cherokee a few months before... and he
had no license, no insurance, was taking off with about a 500 ft ceiling,
carb iced up. He also told me he didn't report it to the FAA. I didn't
fly there - found the glider operation instead and got my glider rating.


--
Roger Kelly
to reply replace the IP address above with cgisenior.com

Hi Mark,

I realized after hitting the "Post Message" button that my previous
post came across as a bit (understatement!) arrogant and
condescending. Sorry, it wasn't meant to be, I was reacting to the
ultralight accident I mentioned, which has really colored my opinion
about the whole "Flying is too complicated and hard, let's make it
easier" trend.

From your response it's obvious we actually think alike in many ways
when it comes to flying - except for the Sports Pilot thing. If 14
year olds can solo gliders and be licenced by 16, having mastered all
the technicalities and "hassles", then it really isn't that hard - it
just takes determination and time (and money, of course - preferably
someone else's!). Making it "easier" by crippling the performance of
the planes and limiting the pilots freedom sounds like a bad and
dangerous deal to me - and everything I have seen in the ultralight
world confirms this - there is so much blatant disrespect for the
limits going on, only the fact that when they kill themselves it is
usually out in the middle of nowhere keeps the Feds from jumping in.

The sad thing is that I love to fly real (meaning certificated) planes
in the same performance range as the ultralights (J-3s and Champs
comes to mind); and I have, but no-one makes any new ones because they
can't compete with ultralights, so we are stuck with 50-year old
designs or expensive antiques or homebuilts - and there goes the
availability and affordability!

I guess I just don't subscribe to the belief that "flying is for
everybody" - heck, there are a lot of people out there who shouldn't
even be driving a car!

Of course, I guess that whatever happens, Darwin and gravity will sort
it all out in the long run. It usually does. I just don't want to be
in the same piece of sky when it happens.

Cheers

Kirk
66
Snobby Elitist Glasshole
and PEZ addict

In article ,
Kirk Stant wrote:
Hi Mark,

From your response it's obvious we actually think alike in many ways
when it comes to flying - except for the Sports Pilot thing. If 14
year olds can solo gliders and be licenced by 16, having mastered all
the technicalities and "hassles", then it really isn't that hard - it
just takes determination and time (and money, of course - preferably
someone else's!). Making it "easier" by crippling the performance of
the planes and limiting the pilots freedom sounds like a bad and
dangerous deal to me - and everything I have seen in the ultralight
world confirms this - there is so much blatant disrespect for the
limits going on, only the fact that when they kill themselves it is
usually out in the middle of nowhere keeps the Feds from jumping in.


The initial license Sport Pilot - glider is so similar to
the initial Private-glider that it is useless.
I'm really only focussing on transition pilots with respect
to Sport Pilot.

The only part of Sport Pilot that has any use for gliders is the
transition for folks who already have a pilot's license.
So we're talking about folks who already have an FAA license
and have had a checkride, just in a different cat/class.

As far as limiting performance, the 2-33's 25 years with no
fatalities speaks volumes. And recreational pilot already does
exactly the "limiting performance" route. There is significant
precedent...

As far as limiting pilot's freedom on paper, we already do this
very extensively with solo limits, launch endorsements, VFR rules,
etc. Some people follow them, some don't. Darwin watches them
every single minute...

The sad thing is that I love to fly real (meaning certificated) planes
in the same performance range as the ultralights (J-3s and Champs
comes to mind); and I have, but no-one makes any new ones because they
can't compete with ultralights, so we are stuck with 50-year old
designs or expensive antiques or homebuilts - and there goes the
availability and affordability!


I saw a Corben Baby Ace for sale just the other day, $8000...
Van's is the #1 buyer/distributer of airplane engines in the US.
Homebuilt has become the way to go. Come to the
Dark Side, Kirk! rebreather activates

I've heard that few new aircraft are built for two reasons:
1. Liability insurance has increased for the companies
2. The Investment Tax Credit, which allowed
huge depreciation tax credits for "leasebacks", went
away decades ago.

#1 was partially limited a few years ago.

I heard #2 may be changing back soon. Anybody wanna
make $80,000 by putting a DG-1000 on leaseback? ;-P
Yeah, I know, only as an LLC...

I guess I just don't subscribe to the belief that "flying is for
everybody" - heck, there are a lot of people out there who shouldn't
even be driving a car!

I believe exactly the same thing. But I also believe that
far more fatalities are caused by overconfidence, lack of
self-discipline, lack of honest self-evaluation, and desire to
"push the limit" than by lack of regulation. I also don't
think checkrides evaluate hazardous attitudes at all.

RANDOM COMMENT: I actually hate the fact the FAA requires
3 hours of instrument training for power instead of three
hours of cloud separation estimation and visibility estimation.
I'll take good judgement and risk avoidance over mediocre
skill any day.

Over the years, I've picked eight people who, under my breath,
I thought would have accident problems. I stopped flying with
them or training them. In each case I had one-on-one critiques
with them. All eight finished lots of checkrides, in fact
faster and with more determination than others. These are
bright, confident people.

None have died, but six have severely damaged aircraft.
One injured a passenger.

I've also passed along dozens of others, and none of them have
ever injured anyone or severely damaged an aircraft. This
is despite quick training time and very low hours.

I think this had little to do with training, skill, or regulation.
All of these pilots would do almost as well or as poorly
with any instructor or examiner. Some pilots just have
excellent self-assessment. Others, when they get to
be in charge in an airplane, grow HORNS!

I don't think more FAA checkrides is the answer. I don't
think one or two questions as part of a test is the answer.
I think endorsements and a one-on-one train/test
scenario is the answer. I think encouraging
a continued reliance on the lowest, most intimate level of
evaluation and training (the CFI) is better. Heck,
if you wanna be stingy, make the endorsements required
by inspectors/DPE's, just
not as one big ball of wax on a checkride.

Get 'em in the door with the hamburger. They'll hear about
the soyburger, cheese, bacon, hot sauce and
spicy fries. They may even smell them. They may even
taste some from a friend's plate. But I believe THEY
should decide if the item is too expensive or too spicy
or too fattening.

And these customers, with good judgement, are the ones I want.
I want them focussing on each new accomplishment, and want them
to see their flight training as a hamburger with lots
of carefully chosen extras. I don't want them forced with
the choice of:

1. expensive, all of it, and messy,
2. nothing at all.

If you haven't, I'd really encourage reading Dennis Wright's
comments in Soaring Dec 2003 (might be Nov?). This is from
a smart guy who just had a super-burger...


Of course, I guess that whatever happens, Darwin and gravity will sort
it all out in the long run. It usually does.

Darwin is HUGE. Did you notice that there is NO hour requirement
for solo? Did you notice the FAA is adamant about solo time?

I just don't want to be
in the same piece of sky when it happens.


Be careful about wanting fewer gliders in the sky. Fewer
gliders means fewer towplanes, fewer aero clubs, fewer
competitions (and fewer posters to this newsgroup).
Do you really want that? :P

Cheers

Kirk
66
Snobby Elitist Glasshole
and PEZ addict


Mark
35 going on 21
Armchair Quarterback and Troll
Ramen addict (chinese version of PEZ)

"rec.aviation.soaring - BS free since Dec 12, 2003 1:45 PM PST"

Cloud flying is not legal in the US or Brazil, unless you're in an IFR
flight plan.

"Arnold Pieper" wrote in message
om...
Cloud flying is not legal in the US or Brazil, unless you're in an IFR
flight plan.



Not totally correct. In the US you CAN fly IFR without being on an IFR
flight plan and without a clearance, so long as you do it in Class G
airspace.Both aircraft and pilot must meet IFR requirements, however.

Ivan
CFII

"Arnold Pieper" wrote in message . com...
Cloud flying is not legal in the US or Brazil, unless you're in an IFR
flight plan.

As with most rules it's the exceptions that are worth knowing. In USA
no intrument flight plan is required for flight in instrument
conditions when not in controlled airspace. There is a class G area
near Bagdad, Arizona, that I have been thinking of using for years.
The only thing that stops me is that I would have to remove the gyro
for contest flying and it would leave a nasty hole in the panel. (yes,
I am instument rated in airplanes and current).


Andy (GY)

There is a class G area
near Bagdad, Arizona.

) LOL!

Is there really a place named Baghdad in Arizona, or You're just joking?

Janusz