First glider to buy 10-20k euro's

On Sat, 17 Mar 2018 15:52:30 -0700, son_of_flubber wrote:

On Wednesday, March 14, 2018 at 1:01:09 PM UTC-4, Martin Gregorie wrote:

I have a similar history (first solo was my club's SZD Junior, then
club owned Pegase and Discus, then an ASW-20 and my current Std
Libelle. Of these I still like flying a Junior in winter,

Why do you prefer the Junior in winter?

My Libelle is in winter storage, off the airfield, over the winter while
the Juniors are on the airfield and flyable. Due to a physical disability
I can't and won't attempt to fly the club's Discus, Pegase or ASW-24.


--
Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org

On Wednesday, 14 March 2018 16:26:29 UTC, Steve Leonard wrote:
snip?

Buy a good plane in a very good trailer!

Good luck!

Steve Leonard

Think 'a very good trailer' is the best advice in this thread

Op maandag 19 maart 2018 07:35:34 UTC+1 schreef :
On Wednesday, 14 March 2018 16:26:29 UTC, Steve Leonard wrote:
snip?

Buy a good plane in a very good trailer!

Good luck!

Steve Leonard

Think 'a very good trailer' is the best advice in this thread

Something I've heard many club members say as well usually, they say buy whatever plane is in good condition with FLARM and 8.33 KHz radio with a very good trailer. Performance at a certain budget is usually nearly identical.

I think any of the first few (Cirrus, Libelle, DG-100, LS1f) are great gliders but I'll just have to find the one in best condition for the best price

Are you going to fly trailer or glider? With hangar space and couple of outlandings per year I had no problem living with vintage trailer.

Op vrijdag 16 maart 2018 13:36:10 UTC+1 schreef Tango Whisky:
Le vendredi 16 mars 2018 11:40:19 UTC+1, Senna Van den Bosch a écritÂ*:
I do have a few hours in the Pegase but they are slightly out of budget at about 5-10k more than I would like to spend.

On www.planeur.net there are 2 Pégase listed for sale, both about 15k.

I have just flown my first XC in a Pegase on Sunday. Only 160 km but I'm happy. It cruises well at 140-160 km/h. Do you have experience in rigging/derigging the Pegase? I fit in quite well and have plenty of room. Performance is lovely and really gentle and might consider one myself. I hear it's much like the ASW 19?

I bought a Pegase a couple of years ago. I don't have that many flights in it yet but here are my observations. Rigging can be easy or difficult. Much depends on the the surface of the ground. On pavement or flat grass gravel it goes together pretty easily. Uneven terrain can present a problem as everything has to be aligned just right. The wings are "bendy" so it takes greater movement at the tips to get the spars to move than you might be used to. I find the elevator connection "(L'Hotellier) to be a bit of a pain as access is limited. I don't know who designed the access hole for the control connections but it must have been somebody with small hands and arms (Trump?)and the connections are made by feel.

I think you are looking at a substantial increase in performance over the other gliders your are considering and would recommend one if you can afford it. Peg vs. ASW 19? I never flew a 19 and there are conflicting opinions. I moved up from an ASW 15 and the difference, especially at higher speeds is quite noticeable. The Peg handles very well and there are many people who swear by (not at) this glider. I'm becoming one of them. Search this group for Pegase opinions. There are a few threads. Support is a consideration. I'm not exactly sure what is going on but it seems there is a new owner.

Op dinsdag 27 maart 2018 14:07:49 UTC+2 schreef :
I bought a Pegase a couple of years ago. I don't have that many flights in it yet but here are my observations. Rigging can be easy or difficult. Much depends on the the surface of the ground. On pavement or flat grass gravel it goes together pretty easily. Uneven terrain can present a problem as everything has to be aligned just right. The wings are "bendy" so it takes greater movement at the tips to get the spars to move than you might be used to. I find the elevator connection "(L'Hotellier) to be a bit of a pain as access is limited. I don't know who designed the access hole for the control connections but it must have been somebody with small hands and arms (Trump?)and the connections are made by feel.

I think you are looking at a substantial increase in performance over the other gliders your are considering and would recommend one if you can afford it. Peg vs. ASW 19? I never flew a 19 and there are conflicting opinions.. I moved up from an ASW 15 and the difference, especially at higher speeds is quite noticeable. The Peg handles very well and there are many people who swear by (not at) this glider. I'm becoming one of them. Search this group for Pegase opinions. There are a few threads. Support is a consideration. I'm not exactly sure what is going on but it seems there is a new owner.

There are indeed a couple of Pegase for sale for 15k, but my French is very rusty (thank you Google Translate) and I'm curious how it compares to, say, the Libelle in rigging and flight.

On Tue, 27 Mar 2018 06:34:17 -0700, Senna Van den Bosch wrote:

Op dinsdag 27 maart 2018 14:07:49 UTC+2 schreef :
I bought a Pegase a couple of years ago. I don't have that many flights
in it yet but here are my observations. Rigging can be easy or
difficult. Much depends on the the surface of the ground. On pavement
or flat grass gravel it goes together pretty easily. Uneven terrain can
present a problem as everything has to be aligned just right. The wings
are "bendy" so it takes greater movement at the tips to get the spars
to move than you might be used to. I find the elevator connection
"(L'Hotellier) to be a bit of a pain as access is limited. I don't know
who designed the access hole for the control connections but it must
have been somebody with small hands and arms (Trump?)and the
connections are made by feel.

I think you are looking at a substantial increase in performance over
the other gliders your are considering and would recommend one if you
can afford it. Peg vs. ASW 19? I never flew a 19 and there are
conflicting opinions. I moved up from an ASW 15 and the difference,
especially at higher speeds is quite noticeable. The Peg handles very
well and there are many people who swear by (not at) this glider. I'm
becoming one of them. Search this group for Pegase opinions. There are
a few threads. Support is a consideration. I'm not exactly sure what is
going on but it seems there is a new owner.

There are indeed a couple of Pegase for sale for 15k, but my French is
very rusty (thank you Google Translate) and I'm curious how it compares
to, say, the Libelle in rigging and flight.

I have a fair amount of time in both, flying our club's Pegase 90 for
about a two years, which included 5 attempts at a 300 goal flight and a
team entry with another club member in a Regionals competition.

First point: most Pegs are one of the four 101 subspecies, with differ in
relatively minor structural details and were built with l'Hotellier
control hookups. Our club Pegase is a 90, which is later than the 101s
and has automatic hookup for all controls. Some 101Ds have been retro-
fitted with automatic control hookups: one was bought last year by a club
member. So, if you're offered a Peg 90 or one with automatic control
hookups, if all other things equal, thats the one to go for.

I agree with what mdfadden says about its flight characteristics: the Peg
is very nice to fly and cruises well. Performance is similar to a Discus
1 but I found the Pegase more comfortable than a Discus and it certainly
has a smaller rear blind spot: I could just see the tailplane tips while
flying the Peg but never got near seeing that far round behind me in a
Discus. Its a two pin wing system, so is much easier to rig than any of
the single pin system gliders. The Peg 90 goes together pretty easily.

I've never rigged a Peg with Hotelliers, but know from personal
experience that the difficulty of groping inside a small, black hole
while you hook up the controls is no different from an ASW-19 or 20, and
not much fun to do.

Despite using a single pin rigging system, Libelles are fairly easy to
rig because everything is in clear view just behind the seat, so you
never end up peering into the fuselage through a hole or or back through
the baggage area to work out why the wing isn't going on. Libelles have
light wings, so its never a problem getting help to rig or derig one. The
airbrakes and elevator self-connect and the aileron connections are
simple to use and very easy to check for a correct connection. Feel under
the aileron drive lever and if you can feel end of the spring-loaded
connector pin protruding from the bottom of the connection box, its
correctly connected.

Libelles have light, nicely balanced controls and are generally easy and
enjoyable to fly. They give you all-round vision: I can see my rudder
waggle when I kick it, ever when firmly strapped in. Yes, the airbrakes
are a bit weak, but this is not a problem once you're used to them and is
offset by good slipping behavior: it is easy to enter and exit a slip on
a heading and, unless you deliberately change attitude in the slip,
you'll come out with pretty much the same airspeed as you went in.
Descent rate in a full-blooded slip is better than you'll achieve in a
Peg because that razor-back tail boom creates a lot of drag when driven
sideways through the air. For the same reason you'll quickly learn to
keep the yaw string centered in a cruise. In my experience anyway, the
Libelle is about the most spin-resistent single seat glider I've flown:
I screwed up a zoomed entry to a thermal once in mine by being a second
or two too late to start the push-over and roll into the turn. As the
glider reached the attitude I wanted, I noticed the ASI was on the stall
speed so, because I had plenty of height and everything felt OK, I just
lowered the nose another 10 degrees and waited to see what happened. The
Libelle mushed round 90 degrees while picking up speed and then climved
away in the thermal. I never felt it was going to stall, drop a wing or
spin.

Watchpoints:

- If you're thermalling in a tight turn with a lot of top aileron, you
may find the inner aileron stalls. This gives a sudden roll into the
turn. This feels a bit like a spin departure but without the nose drop.
Simply centre the stick, which immediately unstalls the aileron and go
on climbing in the thermal.

- DO NOT winch launch a Libelle until you've had a thorough briefing from
somebody who is familiar with winching them them. They have a tendency
to snap-rotate as they come off the ground unless you have full forward
trim set and and the stick pushed forward just past the trimmer
setting, i.e. you're just starting to notice the trim spring resisting
you. Do this correctly and the glider will unstick and climb gently
in the same attitude until you have enough airspeed to rotate into full
climb. This needs a fairly small stick movement, after which the launch
has no other surprises.


--
Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org

Hi Senna,

I bought a Pegase right at 50 hours and really love the ship. While the ailerons and elevator is not automatic, my ship was fitted with Wekeslink (spelling?) sleeves on the ailerons and airbrake connections which significantly ease the connection job inside the turtle deck.

I have a one man rigger and handling and rigging the wings by myself is not an issue.

I really the handling of the ship. I am not sure what these go for in Europe.

Good luck!

Wedekind sleeves are a great option, got some here ready to fit my DG 200-17C.
Dave