Is everybody afraid of World Class?

On Sun, 22 Aug 2004 14:02:53 UTC, Eric Greenwell
wrote:

: But the answer was about relative prices, really: What would it take to
: buy something respectable in the Ka6 line in the UK?

A friend of mine bught a very, very nice Ka6E kit (ie including
trailer and barograph, though no chute) for three and a half grand
about a year ago.

: And do you think the used glider prices have fallen because of reduced
: demand (less people that want gliders) or increased supply (more people
: are buying new ones)?

A bit of both. It's a shrinking sport, so the relative second-hand
supply is going up as the demand falls.

Ian


--

UK junior nationals. An example of where the future of our sport lies. A full
entry list of 50 gliders ranging from SHK and Astir to Ventus C and DG505. No
gliders less than 15m were entered. They were too low performance/
uncompetative/ too expensive/ unavailable.
The best and most competative pilots will always try to find the best glider
available.
In typical weak UK conditions you need something with reasonable penetration to
make progress against any wind over 10 knots. That is why you do not see K8s,
K6 etc competing any more.
Having flown most of the common gliders around including the PW5 I find it
rather delicate for club use. It is thus mainly suitable for private owners.
They are reluctant to buy something that is less capable of completing the task
than the average 15m ship and thus stay away from them.
Not afraid of the World class just think that the PW5 is the wrong glider for
it

RYSZARD, you are full of SH--T!!!! , and you know it. You of all people have
been flying US regionals and consistently , even in 2004 , ignored SSA and
Regional contest rules. You have no humilitity or respect for those who fly
honestly and by the rules. SO DONT BLOW YOUR SMOKE TO THIS NEWSGROUP.
Penn Smith 2P

How we get stupid people like you in soaring ?
If DG design and make new LS4 right now ,it would new cost about $70,000
Pw-5 new cost $22,000
All pilots be aware of idiots!!!

Exactly. Just a bunch of say 50,000 arrogant European pilots who think that
it's an ugly ship and who rather spend $15,000 on a second hand ship having
much more performance...

--
Bert Willing

ASW20 "TW"


"Jacek Kobiesa" a écrit dans le message
de om...
I've been reading the articles about sailplanes in Olympic Games, some
other postings about PW-5 and I came to conclusion that most people
who are posting this articles are afraid of World Class gliders. Why?
What is so difficult in understanding the concept of the glider, the
cost of building it, its performance, etc. Most of you bashing the
concept. Is this because your skill is so limited that you need to
have a bird with max. L/D 10,000 (that is minimum) and a best L/D
speed Mach 1? Anything which doesn't meet this cryteria needs to be
rejected? You are bringing to this equation sailing in Olympic Games
as a comparison? Some of you have never even seen, and most of you
have never flown this glider. So, what is wrong with this picture.
Maybe is time for some of you to take on golfing, for example. I am
realy offended by some of the postings on group. You are not beeing
constructive, you are distructive. To the sport primarly. Do you
suppose that by promoting Discus and Ventus and who know what else you
doing justice to this sport? What about those guys or girls who don't
have $250,000 to waist on a new bird every summer? Is this making them
less qualified or skilled pilots that those of you bashing everything
around and flying supersonic, unlimited L/D gliders? Before anyone of
you decide to bash something without having slightest idea or concept
about what is going on in the small world of gliding, you need to stop
and think about it. We all are saying that numbers of glider pilots
are declining world wide. Do you know why? That is because of buch of
arrogant glider pilots who are acting like the gods; they know
everything, they have been everywhere, they've done it all. Yet when
we go to the world contest results, we don't see those names of the
people who are making this derogatory statements. If you want to help
our sport, think first and then act accordingly. It is only good for
all of the glider pilots worldwide.

If DG design and make new LS4 right now ,it would new cost about $70,000
Pw-5 new cost $22,000

But a new Junior, 15m strong, good handling with better performance costs about
the same as a PeeWee.
No contest which I would buy

szd-55 flyer wrote:
How we get stupid people like you in soaring ?
If DG design and make new LS4 right now ,it would new cost about $70,000
Pw-5 new cost $22,000
All pilots be aware of idiots!!!

A new szd55 is about 35k... Maybe a Discus CS is also at this price range.

/Janos

As a relative newcomer to flying sailplanes, ( I started flying sailplanes 4
years ago, with a background in power and hang gliders. )
here's my take on the world class concept.

There seems to be 2 different purposes that the 'World Class'
was supposed to fulfill.

1) good one-design competition
2) simple easy early solo glider

Does it fulfill these needs ?

1) good one-design competition ?
NO, it's too damn slow ! and ugly !
and there are not enough around to have good competition !

2) simple easy early solo glider ?

For a club, maybe. Our club bought a Blanik L-33
before I joined, and it seems to work pretty well for this
purpose. For really early solo pilots the 1-26 works well also.
The PW-5 seems to have no advantage over the L-33 or used glass.

As a newly licensed glider shopper, I wanted better performance than
the PW-5 would have given me. I bought a used Grob-102 and have had
lots of fun.

My question to the PW-5 supporters.

Would YOU buy one ? As the glider YOU flew every good soaring day ?
If you want the class to grow, sell whatever you have and buy a PW-5.


Todd Smith
Grob 102 3S

The discussion about the value of PW-5 is just pointless. Value of the
glider is defined by the market and when nobody buys the glider it has no
value. Finito.


"Tony Verhulst" wrote in message
...
Jacek Kobiesa wrote:
I've been reading the articles about sailplanes in Olympic Games, some
other postings about PW-5 and I came to conclusion that most people
who are posting this articles are afraid of World Class gliders.

You've got to be kidding.

What is so difficult in understanding the concept of the glider, the
cost of building it, its performance, etc.

Not difficult at all.

Most of you bashing the
concept. Is this because your skill is so limited that you need to
have a bird with max. L/D 10,000 (that is minimum) and a best L/D
speed Mach 1? Anything which doesn't meet this cryteria needs to be
rejected?

If this were true, you'd see Russia's getting criticized in this forum -
not to mention the Silent-in, plus a lot of other ships. You don't see
that, do you? IMHO, the PW5 doesn't get criticized for being a PW5, it
gets criticized for being chosen as the world class glider - when they
could have done so much better.

Tony V.

iPilot wrote:
The discussion about the value of PW-5 is just pointless. Value of the
glider is defined by the market and when nobody buys the glider it has no
value. Finito.

Must be supply siders.
;-)

Shawn