Tires again (but this time on the tow vehicle)

Here in Germany, Volkswagon sells a towing package for the Passat and
Jetta.

Bob

If you Google back a ways in this same newsgroup, you'll see me quoted
as saying something like "there's no substitute for mass" in a tow
vehicle. In those days, I had just switched from the Jetta (more or
less okay for "normal" situations, but definitely not what I'd want in
a downhill panic stop) to an Explorer. However, I think that if you
look at a car like the Passat (all wheel drive plus good ABS plus a
friendly geometry for towing), it's an acceptable alternative to heavy
metal. And again, if you're gonna have to take the wife and kids down
to the shore, it's a lot more friendly as a "regular" family vehicle.
I think the key is to understand the limits and also to make sure
that the trailer brakes are in perfect condition. I've had several
panic situations with the Passat, and thanks to good surge brakes and
intelligent driving, we're still here to talk about it.

WRT diesels, I'm a big fan. I actually started my gliding life towing
a 1-36 on a Gherlein trailer with a Diesel Rabbit. Now that was an
interesting setup. No problem getting going, but hard to get out of
second gear on an uphill. I desperately wanted the Passat 4motion
Wagon with the TDI, but unfortunately, they don't import it into the US
(yet).

P3

Papa3 wrote:
If you Google back a ways in this same newsgroup, you'll see me quoted
as saying something like "there's no substitute for mass" in a tow
vehicle.

True, but a lot of the vehicles with high mass have undesirable traits
like a high center of gravity, a long rear overhang, and perhaps a soft
suspension. If you improve those other traits, you should be able to
reduce mass without reducing safety. Of course, at some point you
can't improve those other traits any more, so any further reductions in
mass will potentially reduce safety.

I think the ideal tow vehicle depends a lot upon the personality of the
driver. If you are the type who gets impatient if you aren't driving at
70 to 80 mph, you will need a heavy tow vehicle. If you are willing to
reduce your speed to whatever is safe for your tow vehicle, you can get
by with something that is smaller and lighter.


In those days, I had just switched from the Jetta (more or
less okay for "normal" situations, but definitely not what I'd want in
a downhill panic stop) to an Explorer. However, I think that if you
look at a car like the Passat (all wheel drive plus good ABS plus a
friendly geometry for towing), it's an acceptable alternative to heavy
metal. And again, if you're gonna have to take the wife and kids down
to the shore, it's a lot more friendly as a "regular" family vehicle.
I think the key is to understand the limits and also to make sure
that the trailer brakes are in perfect condition. I've had several
panic situations with the Passat, and thanks to good surge brakes and
intelligent driving, we're still here to talk about it.

WRT diesels, I'm a big fan. I actually started my gliding life towing
a 1-36 on a Gherlein trailer with a Diesel Rabbit. Now that was an
interesting setup. No problem getting going, but hard to get out of
second gear on an uphill. I desperately wanted the Passat 4motion
Wagon with the TDI, but unfortunately, they don't import it into the US
(yet).

P3

Bob C wrote:
Following this logic, I'd be better off using an M-1
Abrahms... :-))


You are correct. In a panic, rainy, downhill stop
situation, I'd take the Abrams if it was available
)

All kidding aside, the 3/4-ton Dodge diesel gets 25
MPG empty, 20 in town and 20 pulling the sailplane
trailer. (I'm not exaggerating. I keep a fuel logbook
for tax purposes.) In its 2 WD configuration, 5 speed,
and without a lot of bells and whistles, it cost around
$26000 new in 2001. It now has 165,000 miles (mostly
pulling the trailer) and runs like new. Other than
oil changes, it's never been in the shop. I expect
it to last around 300,000 miles. The last set of tires
even lasted 90,000 miles! It's big, comfortable and
roomy enough for all my gear. I've run the numbers.
It is the cheapest sailplane transporter there is.
And no sparkplugs to change )

(Heavy sigh) I learned about the performance of the big diesels after I
bought my 2000 Dakota Quadcab with its peaky gas V8 (lots of power but
you need to down shift to get it) that gets similar millage in a
mid-sized truck with a smallish bed. I assumed bigger meant more cost
and poorer fuel millage (as with F150s), and the salesmen were useless.
It is easier to park.

Shawn

Michael McNulty wrote:

Do you actually know anything about the legal system in the US, driving in
the US, or anything else in the US, or, are you just a inclined to
reflexively bash any mention of anything America?

If your patriotic reflex had allowed you to recognize the irony, you
would have understood that my message simply was: "There may be other
reasons than technical ones."

Stefan

Michael McNulty wrote:

From what I've read, while Mercedes does give a tow rating for many of their
cars sold in German, they limit the speed while towing to either 55 mph or
62 mph (100 km/h).

It's not Mercedes. It's simply the law which limits the speed for
trailer towing in some countries. (e.g. 80 km/h in Switzerland, 100 km/h
in Germany ...)

Stefan

Well, in Europe almost all vehicules are rated for maximum tow weight -
depending on horse power and torque. If the same car isn't rated for towing
in the US (and the Passat tows fairly well) it is obvious that the reason
behind this is not technical.

I think the main reason for the difference in European and US perception is
that in Europe, suspensions are much stiffer and steering is more direct. We
need that here because our roads are much less smooth, rather windy- and
because the style of driving is much different (especially if you go to
southern France or Italy).

But the result is simple for us: In the last 25 years, I never ever heared a
European sailplane pilot discussing about tires. You check the max tow
weight of the car you fancy, you buy it with a hook and you go - with a
Cobra or a Komet trailer, there won't be any problem. My Calif trailer is a
different story (1200kg, one axle, suspicious stability), but when I blew a
tire of that trailer at 100kph on a narrow road, the car kept going straight
ahead - I eventually stopped because the steering wheel started to rattle
and a big plume of smoke was coming off the reminder of the wheel (since
then I stopped listening to hard rock on full power...). The car was a Saab
with a 2 litres engine, 300kg heavier than the trailer.

Having driven a lot in the US in various rental cars, I wouldn't take the
same approach...

--
Bert Willing

ASW20 "TW"


"Michael McNulty" a écrit dans le message de news:
T85Nd.31446$mt.26531@fed1read03...

"Stefan" wrote in message
...
Michael McNulty wrote:

they say that you should not use their automobile for towing.
(This is in the US; perhaps in Europe VW gives a different story.)

Looking at the outcome of some liability lawsuits in the US, I'm
surprized that there are still manufactorers which recommend their
product for *anything*.

Stefan

Do you actually know anything about the legal system in the US, driving in
the US, or anything else in the US, or, are you just a inclined to
reflexively bash any mention of anything America?

Stefan wrote:
Michael McNulty wrote:

From what I've read, while Mercedes does give a tow rating for many of
their cars sold in German, they limit the speed while towing to either
55 mph or 62 mph (100 km/h).


It's not Mercedes. It's simply the law which limits the speed for
trailer towing in some countries. (e.g. 80 km/h in Switzerland, 100 km/h
in Germany ...)

Actually, it IS Mercedes and the speeds are even slower than you quote.
The ML manual I'm looking at right now says 50 mph or 80km/h even
though the legal limit for trailers here is the posted limit. That's
usually 100 or 110km/h on highways/freeways.

Graeme Cant