Human factors RECKLESSNESS

"NW_PILOT" wrote in message
...
snip
Dudley, your one of the only one! I have learned a lot on these usnet
groups. I AM NOT A TROLL!!!!

Werid I seek instruction report back and get flamed!


Hello NW_pilot

I started this new thread because it was not my intention to single out your
actions, others have said all that needed to be said. I think your
instructor is more deserving of critisism than you. You are not the first
to roll or loop a flight school Cessna and I doubt that you will be the
last. I hope it has been a learning experience and that you suffer no
further problems from your public announcement. I think you should be
commended for the grace with which you have received the replies of these
groups. The important thing is that you survived to be a better pilot.

My comments were intended to stimulate thought regarding the consequences of
poor decision making that this week has resulted in two fatalities. I have
a funeral to attend and I do not know what to say to the mother who has now
lost both her champion pilot husband and her champion pilot only son.
Dudley, I would appreciate your guidance and wisdom as I am sure you have
been in my position too many times.

The study of human factors recognizes that (like Pogo) "We have seen the
problem and it is US". Controlling the aircraft is only a part of
successful flight operation, control of the pilot seems to be the largest
part of the problem.

Just my humble .02

Dudley, don't misunderstand me.
Hoover (an a limited number of others) are special circumstances.
Everything I have read stated that the Shrike was a stock airplane.
I don't recall that Hoover ever spins in the airplane.
The video of the roll while pouring a glass of water is sure a hoot, though!
As I said in my post, in the right hands, some maneuvers not approve by
the manufacturer can in fact be performed safely.

"private" wrote in message
news:GGgce.1150342$Xk.1123548@pd7tw3no...

My comments were intended to stimulate thought regarding the consequences
of
poor decision making that this week has resulted in two fatalities. I
have
a funeral to attend and I do not know what to say to the mother who has
now
lost both her champion pilot husband and her champion pilot only son.
Dudley, I would appreciate your guidance and wisdom as I am sure you have
been in my position too many times.

Yes, I have unfortunately been in this position more than I care to remember
in my career. Counting our friends on the service jet aerobatic teams, my
wife and I can count 32 people I either flew with, worked with, or knew
professionally in our community who have been lost to fatal accidents
involving aerobatics and low altitude demonstration flying.
I believe I know how you must feel being faced with such a sad event. It
would be presumptuous of me to even attempt to advise you on the best way to
deal with it as I can't imagine a more personal thing than what you are
about to do.
From the way you write however, I also believe you will do the right thing.
Please accept my sincere best wishes and condolences for what most certainly
will be a most trying experience.
Dudley Henriques
International Fighter Pilots Fellowship
Commercial Pilot; CFI; Retired
dhenriquestrashatearthlinktrashdotnet
(take out the trash :-)

Dudley,

Your information and attitude on this newsgroup is awesome. I would
love to have you as an aerobatic instructor.

You ever around the Bay Area? I would love to meet with you and talk
with you sometime.

If you know Bob Hoover, then I am sure you knew Amiela Reid and Wayne
Handley? Those are my all time favorite airshow pilots. Before Ameila
Reid passed, I would watch her performmances at the Watsonville Fly-in
in her Cessna 150 Acro, so graceful.

Anyway, keep up the teaching, it is not lost on everybody.

Donovan
C-172 Pilot
150 hrs.

Dudley,

As always, thanks for being here, we all value your council and your
example.

Blue skies to all

"Dudley Henriques" dhenriques@noware .net wrote in message
nk.net...

"private" wrote in message
news:GGgce.1150342$Xk.1123548@pd7tw3no...

My comments were intended to stimulate thought regarding the
consequences
of
poor decision making that this week has resulted in two fatalities. I
have
a funeral to attend and I do not know what to say to the mother who has
now
lost both her champion pilot husband and her champion pilot only son.
Dudley, I would appreciate your guidance and wisdom as I am sure you
have
been in my position too many times.

Yes, I have unfortunately been in this position more than I care to
remember
in my career. Counting our friends on the service jet aerobatic teams, my
wife and I can count 32 people I either flew with, worked with, or knew
professionally in our community who have been lost to fatal accidents
involving aerobatics and low altitude demonstration flying.
I believe I know how you must feel being faced with such a sad event. It
would be presumptuous of me to even attempt to advise you on the best way
to
deal with it as I can't imagine a more personal thing than what you are
about to do.
From the way you write however, I also believe you will do the right
thing.
Please accept my sincere best wishes and condolences for what most
certainly
will be a most trying experience.
Dudley Henriques
International Fighter Pilots Fellowship
Commercial Pilot; CFI; Retired
dhenriquestrashatearthlinktrashdotnet
(take out the trash :-)

Thank you for the kind word, but I'm afraid my flying days are long over
:-)
I know Bob from the old IFPF days. He was one of our charter members.
You have a couple of real heavyweights there in Amelia and Handley. I never
met them, but both are of course well known to me. Amelia was, before her
death and remains today a legend in the California tailwheel and aerobatic
community. Handley I believe is still flying the Oracle bird. God knows what
Bob is doing these days. Probably sitting on his veranda out there in Palos
Verdes looking at the sea gulls flying over the ocean planning some "new"
maneuver to try and refusing to grow old like the rest of us.:-)
Dudley

wrote in message
oups.com...
Dudley,

Your information and attitude on this newsgroup is awesome. I would
love to have you as an aerobatic instructor.

You ever around the Bay Area? I would love to meet with you and talk
with you sometime.

If you know Bob Hoover, then I am sure you knew Amiela Reid and Wayne
Handley? Those are my all time favorite airshow pilots. Before Ameila
Reid passed, I would watch her performmances at the Watsonville Fly-in
in her Cessna 150 Acro, so graceful.

Anyway, keep up the teaching, it is not lost on everybody.

Donovan
C-172 Pilot
150 hrs.

Andrew Gideon wrote:

I felt a rush the first time I flew into a cloud. The goal was to reach the
point where it *doesn't* cause a rush, however.

Sometimes I will stare at an approaching cloud while flying IFR (on
autopilot) and imagine that it is a brick wall. The speed at which it hits
the aircraft still causes a momentary rush in me.

--
Peter


















----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----

john smith wrote:
Dudley, don't misunderstand me.
Hoover (an a limited number of others) are special circumstances.
Everything I have read stated that the Shrike was a stock airplane.
I don't recall that Hoover ever spins in the airplane.
The video of the roll while pouring a glass of water is sure a hoot,
though!
As I said in my post, in the right hands, some maneuvers not approve by
the manufacturer can in fact be performed safely.

I believe that Bob also said at one airshow that he never stressed the
Shrike beyond its certification load limits. As someone said earlier,
it often isn't the aerobatic maneuver itself that stresses the airframe,
it is the botched maneuver or the recovery from a botched maneuver where
the extra strength is needed. Obviously, Mr. Hoover doesn't have to
worry about that. :-)


Matt

"Matt Whiting" wrote in message
...
john smith wrote:
Dudley, don't misunderstand me.
Hoover (an a limited number of others) are special circumstances.
Everything I have read stated that the Shrike was a stock airplane.
I don't recall that Hoover ever spins in the airplane.
The video of the roll while pouring a glass of water is sure a hoot,
though!
As I said in my post, in the right hands, some maneuvers not approve by
the manufacturer can in fact be performed safely.

I believe that Bob also said at one airshow that he never stressed the
Shrike beyond its certification load limits. As someone said earlier,
it often isn't the aerobatic maneuver itself that stresses the airframe,
it is the botched maneuver or the recovery from a botched maneuver where
the extra strength is needed. Obviously, Mr. Hoover doesn't have to
worry about that. :-)


According to Liefeld, Hoover's Shrike had just two modifications other than
its smoke system. An hydraulic accumulator in the baggage compartment held
hydraulic pressure so Hoover could extend the gear when the airplane was
upside down and the engines feathered. It also provided Hoover with
nosewheel steering following his deadstick landing and rollout.

The second mod was an automatic unfeathering system. Hoover would shut down
the engines by pulling the prop controls to Feather position while leaving
the throttles and mixture controls in place. To restart, he would advance
the prop levers, tripping microswitches on electric pumps that unfeathered
the props so they would windmill and restart.


Matt
---------------------
Matthew W. Barrow
Site-Fill Homes, LLC.
Montrose, CO

At 03:30 29 April 2005, Dudley Henriques wrote:

My comments were intended to stimulate thought regarding
the consequences of poor decision making that this
week has resulted in two fatalities.

Snipped from original poster.....

This subject gets batted around quite a bit, particularlly
post-fatality. I though Davis Strab in his HG ezine
did an excellent job of summarizing one train of thought...not
that I particularly agree with it.

IMHO, a lot of reckless behaviour is brought about
by showing off...remove the audience or their adulation...and
*maybe* some of this type of flying might be lessened.
I wonder how many low passes are done at deserted
airports?

Somewhere in my aviation library is a quote that can
be summarized as...'Showing off with an aircraft is
a good way to get killed'.

I use that theme combined with the fact that nothing
we do in gliders is worth risking our lives unnecesarily
for...

And no, that does not meant we don't go fly....and
take acceptable risks...