One Six Right

My DVD player is a Pioneer Elite model DV-47Ai. It is only a year old
and it cost me $1500.00. It is supposed to play all formats of DVD, CD,
SACD and DVD-Audio disks so I doubt that it is the player. Next to my
airplane I spend tons of cash on home theater stuff. :-) I think I got
a bum disk. I just hope they make it right...

Jon Kraus
'79 Mooney 201
4443H @ TYQ

Morgans wrote:
"Jay Beckman" wrote


I'm wondering if maybe Jon's player is old enough to have a compatibility
issue with a disc that was burned as either a +R or a -R.

Don't know which way "One Six Right" is being mastered but you might try
contacting the production company to find out and then ask for the other
format.


Yeah, that was what I was thinking. You said it better.

I doubt that they can do the other format, though. They probably rendered a
master, then had it mass-produced. I would say just go get another DVD
player; he could treat himself, and help the economy. g They are so cheap
now, it is amazing!

Amen to that!!

Jon KRaus
'79 Mooney 201
4443H @ TYQ

Peter Duniho wrote:

"Jay Beckman" wrote in message
news:tvQmf.8510$SG5.3459@fed1read01...

I'm wondering if maybe Jon's player is old enough to have a compatibility
issue with a disc that was burned as either a +R or a -R.


For $30, they had better not be burning those DVDs. At that price, I'd
expect a pressed disc, without any compatibility issues.

Jon K wrote:
My DVD player is a Pioneer Elite model DV-47Ai. It is only a year old
and it cost me $1500.00. It is supposed to play all formats of DVD, CD,
SACD and DVD-Audio disks so I doubt that it is the player.

You can always take that disk to CompUSA or WalMart and try it in one
of their players to make sure. I have four DVD players, two of them
where cheap Apex's, one is a cheap Orion and a Sony that is part of the
home theater system. The cheap ones played everything but the Sony was
choosey. It wouldn't play copies or it didn't play them well. I
called Sony's cust sup. and they had me take the cover off the Sony and
moved a jumper. It has played everything I fed it since. You might
want to try that.

The Sony was part of a $750.00 package.
The Orion was $39.00 from Costco.
One of Apex was $79.00, the other was came as a give-me/freebe with the
large screen TV.

Monty, you're a trip. LOL

My DVD player is a Pioneer Elite model DV-47Ai. It is only a year old and
it cost me $1500.00. It is supposed to play all formats of DVD, CD, SACD
and DVD-Audio disks

You're NOT going to want to hear this, but...

....we bought DVD players for all the suites at the hotel. They play all
formats of DVD, CD, and MP3 files.

Cost: $18.00 apiece. (That is NOT a typo...)

:-)

The players now actually cost LESS than the DVDs!
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

"Jay Beckman" wrote in message
news:6HSmf.8522$SG5.812@fed1read01...
For $30, they had better not be burning those DVDs. At that price, I'd
expect a pressed disc, without any compatibility issues.

It really depends on the sales numbers.

That depends on whether you are the seller or the buyer. The buyer doesn't
give a crap about the sales numbers. He just wants a reliable DVD.

Duplication (ie burned) is less expensive for small runs (generally less
than a thousand discs or so...)

Replication only makes sense if you need to produce a high enough volume
where you can be an ongoing (ie profitable) project for a disc
manufacturing facility.

You should reread what you wrote. Your second statement, while not entirely
inconsistent with the first, doesn't fill the HUGE gap left by the first.

I doubt these guys are less than 1000 units, but even if they are, they've
got no business charging $30 for a burned DVD.

Neither process is perfect, it could just be a bad disc...it happens.

The proposed problem here has nothing to do with a manufacturing defect.
The question is whether an incompatible blank media was used for a burned
DVD. If the media is incompatible with the DVD player, then a perfectly
manufactured disc still won't work.

Nevermind the issue with respect to longevity of burned DVDs. There aren't
any solid figures on lifetime of data on a burned DVD, but it's pretty well
acknowledged that it's pretty short relative to the lifetime of a stamped
disc.

I know that if I ordered one of these DVDs, paying $30 for it, and it
arrived as a burned media, I would send it right back and demand a refund.
There's simply no excuse for something that expensive not being stamped. At
that price, the difference between burned and stamped is negligible.

Pete

"Peter Duniho" wrote in message
...
"Jay Beckman" wrote in message
news:6HSmf.8522$SG5.812@fed1read01...
For $30, they had better not be burning those DVDs. At that price, I'd
expect a pressed disc, without any compatibility issues.

It really depends on the sales numbers.

That depends on whether you are the seller or the buyer. The buyer
doesn't give a crap about the sales numbers. He just wants a reliable
DVD.

Correct on both counts. The seller wants to create his discs in as cost
effective a method as possible with as few defects as possible. The
duplicator wants to create as many discs without defects as possible because
he has to eat the rejects. Having worked in the duplication field, I can
tell you that a certain percentage of defects is expected. You work very
hard to get this number as low as possible but you won't eliminate it
completely. Video is an inexact science subject to glitches that may be
transient but can ruin an entire batch of product.

Duplication (ie burned) is less expensive for small runs (generally less
than a thousand discs or so...)

Replication only makes sense if you need to produce a high enough volume
where you can be an ongoing (ie profitable) project for a disc
manufacturing facility.

You should reread what you wrote. Your second statement, while not
entirely inconsistent with the first, doesn't fill the HUGE gap left by
the first.

I've got no idea what their initial sales projections were or what they're
actual sales numbers are. It's possible that they started with duplication
and changed over to replication once it became clear that sales numbers
would allow for it and still be profitable.

We used to start some VHS duplication projects with only 50 to 100 pieces at
a time recored in VCRs at real time. Then, if the order grew, we'd move to
using a high-speed duplication process that could dub a two-hour movie in
about 58 seconds but this incurred other costs (mastering stock, empty VHS
shells, blank VHS tape stock, labor, maintenance, etc.) that were ala carte
or buried vs just having it done with pre-loaded, blank VHS tapes.

As in indication of how narrow the profit margins were in duplication, we
used to have caniption fits if blank VHS shells went up $.01 in price. We
probably changed suppliers 10 times a year to avoid such price fluctuations.

I doubt these guys are less than 1000 units, but even if they are, they've
got no business charging $30 for a burned DVD.

They can charge whatever they think the market will bear. Also, as this was
pretty much a non-commercial venture, it's probably going to have to sell at
a higher price point to recoup the production costs.

Neither process is perfect, it could just be a bad disc...it happens.

The proposed problem here has nothing to do with a manufacturing defect.
The question is whether an incompatible blank media was used for a burned
DVD. If the media is incompatible with the DVD player, then a perfectly
manufactured disc still won't work.

That's why I also said it could just be a defective disc. Owing to Jon's
later reply, I now have no reason to believe that his DVD player is suspect
and I think he probably got a bad disc.

Nevermind the issue with respect to longevity of burned DVDs. There
aren't any solid figures on lifetime of data on a burned DVD, but it's
pretty well acknowledged that it's pretty short relative to the lifetime
of a stamped disc.

I'll take your word for it.

I know that if I ordered one of these DVDs, paying $30 for it, and it
arrived as a burned media, I would send it right back and demand a refund.

And if sending it back gives you satisfaction, then by all means do it.

There's simply no excuse for something that expensive not being stamped.
At that price, the difference between burned and stamped is negligible.

From what I've seen and read, it's a first-class piece of work done as a
labor of love by the producer with "some" help from corporate money but with
LA area technican's day rates and equipment rental costs being what they
are, it was probably not near enough to cover the costs incurred in it's
production.

If Santa brings me a copy, I plan to play the 1s and 0s off it ... don't
really care if was burned, stamped, pressed or made with a stylus and clay
tablets because IMO, it's a project well worth the support of the aviation
community.

Jay Beckman
PP-ASEL
AZ Cloudbusters
Chandler, AZ

"Jon Kraus" wrote

My DVD player is a Pioneer Elite model DV-47Ai. It is only a year old
and it cost me $1500.00. It is supposed to play all formats of DVD, CD,
SACD and DVD-Audio disks so I doubt that it is the player.

See, cheap is better! You have _too nice_ of a player! g
--
Jim in NC

"Jay Beckman" wrote in message
news:dv2nf.8567$SG5.2558@fed1read01...
[...] Having worked in the duplication field, I can tell you that a
certain percentage of defects is expected. You work very hard to get this
number as low as possible but you won't eliminate it completely. Video is
an inexact science subject to glitches that may be transient but can ruin
an entire batch of product.

My comments have nothing to do with the defective disc scenario.

[...]
I doubt these guys are less than 1000 units, but even if they are,
they've got no business charging $30 for a burned DVD.

They can charge whatever they think the market will bear.

True, that's the heart of all capitalism. However, honorable capitalists
make an effort to provide a quality product as well.

[...]
That's why I also said it could just be a defective disc. Owing to Jon's
later reply, I now have no reason to believe that his DVD player is
suspect and I think he probably got a bad disc.

My comments have nothing to do with the defective disc scenario. Whether or
not Jon's disc is defective is entirely irrelevant to my comments. My
comments are strictly with respect to what a person has reason to expect
when buying a DVD. Burning a DVD is strictly for low-ball,
don't-care-if-it-lasts situations, as far as commercial release goes (the
home user making his own DVD, of course, has no other feasible option).

I don't even know whether this particular DVD was stamped or burned. It
doesn't really matter. My point is that IF IT IS BURNED, the price of $30
is way too high. I made the comment only in response to a suggestion that
Jon might be having a media type incompatibility issue. I personally
thought that theory unlikely at the outset, and for the very reason that at
$30 I would not expect the DVD to have been burned.

[...]
From what I've seen and read, it's a first-class piece of work done as a
labor of love by the producer with "some" help from corporate money but
with LA area technican's day rates and equipment rental costs being what
they are, it was probably not near enough to cover the costs incurred in
it's production.

Wonderful. So what?

If Santa brings me a copy, I plan to play the 1s and 0s off it ... don't
really care if was burned, stamped, pressed or made with a stylus and clay
tablets because IMO, it's a project well worth the support of the aviation
community.

Wonderful. So what?

If you want to donate $30 to the cause, that's fine. But that has nothing
to do with whether $30 is a reasonable price point for a burned DVD.

You seem to be very hung up on this particular DVD. My comments were not
about this particular DVD. They were simply an observation about the
likelihood of the DVD being burned, given the $30 price tag, and what I'd
think of the DVD if it DID turn out to be burned, based strictly on the
price tag. The contents of the DVD are irrelevant to my point.

Pete

I got the DVD to work correctly by screwing around with the player some.

To start with I was getting a totally blank screen for chapter one. To
correct this issue; I wait for the blank screen, then press the "pause"
button twice, then chapter 1 starts playing.

I was still getting the Subtitles that I could not get turned off from
the "settings" page menu of the DVD. In order to get this corrected I
had to press the "subtitles" button on the DVD remote, then a different
menu would come up for turning the Subtitles off. I selected "Subtitles
off" and off they went!!

I could now watch the entire DVD just the way I wanted to. It is funny
because I have never had to screw around with any other DVD to get them
to work properly in this machine.

As I read the thread I saw folks talking about the cheap DVD players
working fine so I tried the DVD in my $200 Toshiba player that was
regulated to the bedroom after purchasing the Pioneer, and it worked
perfectly!!

So as usual this group gave me some ideas to try that ended up working
and solving my problem. I am grateful to you all because I didn't want
to to go through the hassle of returning the thing. Thanks again!!

Jon Kraus
'79 Mooney 201
4443H @ TYQ


Peter Duniho wrote:

"Jay Beckman" wrote in message
news:dv2nf.8567$SG5.2558@fed1read01...

[...] Having worked in the duplication field, I can tell you that a
certain percentage of defects is expected. You work very hard to get this
number as low as possible but you won't eliminate it completely. Video is
an inexact science subject to glitches that may be transient but can ruin
an entire batch of product.


My comments have nothing to do with the defective disc scenario.


[...]

I doubt these guys are less than 1000 units, but even if they are,
they've got no business charging $30 for a burned DVD.

They can charge whatever they think the market will bear.


True, that's the heart of all capitalism. However, honorable capitalists
make an effort to provide a quality product as well.


[...]
That's why I also said it could just be a defective disc. Owing to Jon's
later reply, I now have no reason to believe that his DVD player is
suspect and I think he probably got a bad disc.


My comments have nothing to do with the defective disc scenario. Whether or
not Jon's disc is defective is entirely irrelevant to my comments. My
comments are strictly with respect to what a person has reason to expect
when buying a DVD. Burning a DVD is strictly for low-ball,
don't-care-if-it-lasts situations, as far as commercial release goes (the
home user making his own DVD, of course, has no other feasible option).

I don't even know whether this particular DVD was stamped or burned. It
doesn't really matter. My point is that IF IT IS BURNED, the price of $30
is way too high. I made the comment only in response to a suggestion that
Jon might be having a media type incompatibility issue. I personally
thought that theory unlikely at the outset, and for the very reason that at
$30 I would not expect the DVD to have been burned.


[...]
From what I've seen and read, it's a first-class piece of work done as a
labor of love by the producer with "some" help from corporate money but
with LA area technican's day rates and equipment rental costs being what
they are, it was probably not near enough to cover the costs incurred in
it's production.


Wonderful. So what?


If Santa brings me a copy, I plan to play the 1s and 0s off it ... don't
really care if was burned, stamped, pressed or made with a stylus and clay
tablets because IMO, it's a project well worth the support of the aviation
community.


Wonderful. So what?

If you want to donate $30 to the cause, that's fine. But that has nothing
to do with whether $30 is a reasonable price point for a burned DVD.

You seem to be very hung up on this particular DVD. My comments were not
about this particular DVD. They were simply an observation about the
likelihood of the DVD being burned, given the $30 price tag, and what I'd
think of the DVD if it DID turn out to be burned, based strictly on the
price tag. The contents of the DVD are irrelevant to my point.

Pete