ADIZ Violation Explained in AOPA Magazine

Larry Dighera wrote:

On Wed, 04 Jan 2006 00:54:30 GMT, "Mike Schumann"
wrote in
et::


Obviously the pilot is the one responsible.


Actually, I would place some culpability on the FBO (presumably) that
rented the PIC the aircraft. However, that in no way diminishes the
multiple transgressions of the PIC.

He was part owner of the aircraft.

"Mike Schumann" wrote in message
nk.net...
"Gary Drescher" wrote in message
. ..
"Mike Schumann" wrote in message
ink.net...
I have 0 sympathy for either of these guys. Since when is a GPS
required for VFR navigation? What happened to learning how to read a
map and looking out the window?

You have zero sympathy for the student-pilot passenger who hadn't even
begun his cross-country flight-training yet? What sort of navigational
responsibility do you expect such a passenger to bear? (The FAA, of
course, found him to be blameless.)

Obviously the pilot is the one responsible. But you would think that a
stundent pilot with 30 hours, particularly one who is going along to get
cross country experience would have a little better grasp of map reading
and basic navigation.

His number of hours tells you nothing useful; different students can be at
very different points in their training at the same number of hours. What's
relevant is that this particular student had not yet had any cross-country
training. Why would you expect a student at that stage to already be
competent to read charts and navigate?

--Gary

On 1/3/06 11:55 AM, in article ,
"Gary Drescher" wrote:

"Mike Schumann" wrote in message
ink.net...
I have 0 sympathy for either of these guys. Since when is a GPS required
for VFR navigation? What happened to learning how to read a map and
looking out the window?

You have zero sympathy for the student-pilot passenger who hadn't even begun
his cross-country flight-training yet? What sort of navigational
responsibility do you expect such a passenger to bear? (The FAA, of course,
found him to be blameless.)

--Gary


The "student/pilot passenger" was flying.
--
Jeff 'The Wizard of Draws' Bucchino

Cartoons with a Touch of Magic�
http://www.wizardofdraws.com

More Cartoons with a Touch of Magic�
http://www.cartoonclipart.com

"Wizard of Draws" wrote in message
news:BFE08A31.5171C%jeffbREMOVE@REMOVEwizardofdraw s.com...
On 1/3/06 11:55 AM, in article
,
"Gary Drescher" wrote:

"Mike Schumann" wrote in message
ink.net...
I have 0 sympathy for either of these guys. Since when is a GPS
required
for VFR navigation? What happened to learning how to read a map and
looking out the window?

You have zero sympathy for the student-pilot passenger who hadn't even
begun
his cross-country flight-training yet? What sort of navigational
responsibility do you expect such a passenger to bear? (The FAA, of
course,
found him to be blameless.)

--Gary


The "student/pilot passenger" was flying.

The passenger was manipulating the controls, yes. But that in no way places
any navigational responsibility on him--especially since his cross-country
training hadn't even begun yet.

--Gary

"Gary Drescher" wrote

The passenger was manipulating the controls, yes. But that in no way
places any navigational responsibility on him--especially since his
cross-country training hadn't even begun yet.

I thought I remembered that the 70 yr old was flying, until intercepted; the
student took over at that point. No?
--
Jim in NC

Gary Drescher wrote:

The passenger was manipulating the controls, yes. But that in no way places
any navigational responsibility on him--especially since his cross-country
training hadn't even begun yet.

Thirty hours and no x-c training? Will this guy live long enough to get
his ticket at this rate?


Jack

"Mike Schumann" wrote in message
ink.net...
I have 0 sympathy for either of these guys. Since when is a GPS required
for VFR navigation? What happened to learning how to read a map and
looking out the window? Makes you really question a system where you get
your pilots license and you are good to go for life. Maybe there should be
some periodic retest to make sure people still have the skills they need or
have learned about new stuff that didn't exist when they first got their
license.

Mike Schumann

There is a review you know? Happens about every 2 years.

Mike Schumann wrote:
I have 0 sympathy for either of these guys. Since when is a GPS required
for VFR navigation? What happened to learning how to read a map and looking
out the window? Makes you really question a system where you get your
pilots license and you are good to go for life. Maybe there should be some
periodic retest to make sure people still have the skills they need or have
learned about new stuff that didn't exist when they first got their license.

If they'd drawn a straight line between Smoketown and Lumberton, they
would have pretty much missed the entire ADIZ mess (and the class B as
well). The straight line path if I recall runs right down the east
edge of the ADIZ. If they'd have tracked down the eastern shore until
past DC, they wouldn't have come close and the visual landmark (the
Chesapeake bay) is pretty hard to miss. Yes, it does mean that they
would have had to cross the water however.

Ron Natalie wrote:

If they'd drawn a straight line between Smoketown and Lumberton, they
would have pretty much missed the entire ADIZ mess (and the class B as
well).

When I plug that in to my flight planner, the course goes nearly right over DCA.
Straight through the FRZ.

George Patterson
Coffee is only a way of stealing time that should by rights belong to
your slightly older self.

I get the same thing as George with the path right through the ADIZ and FRZ.
Ron, are you putting in Lumberton in New Jersey?

Marco Leon

"George Patterson" wrote in message
news:tmHuf.320$q26.56@trnddc03...
Ron Natalie wrote:

If they'd drawn a straight line between Smoketown and Lumberton, they
would have pretty much missed the entire ADIZ mess (and the class B as
well).

When I plug that in to my flight planner, the course goes nearly right
over DCA.
Straight through the FRZ.

George Patterson
Coffee is only a way of stealing time that should by rights belong
to
your slightly older self.