Blue Angels Question(s)

Flight of the Phoenix with Jimmy Stewart. Avoid the modern
version with the same title.


"Dudley Henriques" wrote in
message
ink.net...
|
| "Jim Macklin" wrote
in message
| news:lfHUf.533$t22.346@dukeread08...
| Radioactive slime, sort of like the Blob but more like
| oatmeal. Not really a bad movie, but a waste of good
| actors.
|
| I can just see myself pitching this one to my wife at
Blockbusters!
| "Yo Hon....let's get this one! It's got
everything.........radioactive
| slime.........a blob thing...........and something that
looks like
| oatmeal!................"
| "Hon.......................hon.................... ....did
anyone see my wife
| leave?"
|
| :-))
| Dudley
|
|

"Wizard of Draws" wrote in message
news:C048B3AD.6AC96%jeffbREMOVE@REMOVEwizardofdraw s.com...
On 3/23/06 12:26 PM, in article
et, "Dudley Henriques"
wrote:
My question for a long time has been, how do they keep their speed
synchronized so well so they can maintain such tight formations? It seems
to
me that small variations would have to creep into their engines, requiring
micro adjustments to the throttle settings in flight. Do they have that
available, or are the engines so well maintained that X% of thrust on
Bird1
is _exactly_ the same as every other?
--
Jeff 'The Wizard of Draws' Bucchino

Formation that tight isn't done by an engine setting per se. It's done by
relative motion. For example, lead always "gives up" a few % in RPM as his
full throttle position to give some play percentage wise to the lowest power
setting in the formation. There's always a few RPM for the slot and 2 wings
to use if they need it.
As to holding position, it's done by relative motion on a single position ,
usually lead in the Diamond. Lead sets the power and everybody does whatever
it takes to hold position. There is a set line of sight for each position
called a "paint" that coincides with a direct position line to that spot on
another aircraft. Power is adjusted to maintain that paint. No attention is
paid to what percent RPM is required to do that. It could very well vary
from position to position. The only thing that's important is that lead is
off the throttle enough that the slowest plane (RPM wise) in the formation,
has the excess power spread to hold the position.
There's a WHOLE lot going on with all this that the public never sees or
hears. Flying a 20 minute show for these guys is just about the same
physical effort as playing an entire football game as a pro...BOTH ways!
And this doesn't even get into the mental strain!
Dudley Henriques

We're going down again next spring. Our son has a time share at the Royal
Floridian on A1A just below Granada. If you think of it sometime, send me
the phone number back channel and I'll try not to lose it this time :-)
Dudley

"Orval Fairbairn" wrote in message
news
In article . net,
"Dudley Henriques" wrote:

"Orval Fairbairn" wrote in message
news
In article . net,
"Dudley Henriques" wrote:

LOL!!! :-)
Dammit Paul, I always suspected there was a right way to spell that
damn
word. Just never bothered to look it up!! :-)))
Come to think of it, Jagger riding in on a Segway just might have
spoiled
the mood a bit!!!
D

Mick Jagger on a Segway might be more believable!

Hi Orville;
Dammit, I missed you again. Just got back this week from Ormond Beach.
Completely forgot about Spruce Creek would you believe it??

I think Mick's tied up doing something else right now. Last I heard, he
was
renting himself out as a pop up face to help people get rid of the
hiccups
:-))
Dudley

Well, Dudley, make sure that you are around here for a Saturday fly-out
to breakfast. You can fly with me or one of the other characters here.

Dudley,

I thought your comments about formation flying were very interesting. Please
tell us more!

Jon

"Jim Macklin" wrote in message
news:jXHUf.544$t22.197@dukeread08...
Flight of the Phoenix with Jimmy Stewart. Avoid the modern
version with the same title.

The scene when Stewart and Attenborough find out Kruger is a model airplane
designer is worth the price of admission :-)))
Dudley

"Jon Woellhaf" wrote in message
. ..
Dudley,

I thought your comments about formation flying were very interesting.
Please tell us more!

Jon

Thank you very much for the kind comment.
Formation flying is a whole new world of information. If it's ok, I'd rather
simply answer a few specific questions when I can then ramble on aimlessly
about such a complicated issue :-))
Dudley Henriques

On 3/23/06 8:43 PM, in article
et, "Dudley Henriques"
wrote:


"Wizard of Draws" wrote in message
news:C048B3AD.6AC96%jeffbREMOVE@REMOVEwizardofdraw s.com...
On 3/23/06 12:26 PM, in article
et, "Dudley Henriques"
wrote:
My question for a long time has been, how do they keep their speed
synchronized so well so they can maintain such tight formations? It seems
to
me that small variations would have to creep into their engines, requiring
micro adjustments to the throttle settings in flight. Do they have that
available, or are the engines so well maintained that X% of thrust on
Bird1
is _exactly_ the same as every other?
--
Jeff 'The Wizard of Draws' Bucchino

Formation that tight isn't done by an engine setting per se. It's done by
relative motion. For example, lead always "gives up" a few % in RPM as his
full throttle position to give some play percentage wise to the lowest power
setting in the formation. There's always a few RPM for the slot and 2 wings
to use if they need it.
As to holding position, it's done by relative motion on a single position ,
usually lead in the Diamond. Lead sets the power and everybody does whatever
it takes to hold position. There is a set line of sight for each position
called a "paint" that coincides with a direct position line to that spot on
another aircraft. Power is adjusted to maintain that paint. No attention is
paid to what percent RPM is required to do that. It could very well vary
from position to position. The only thing that's important is that lead is
off the throttle enough that the slowest plane (RPM wise) in the formation,
has the excess power spread to hold the position.
There's a WHOLE lot going on with all this that the public never sees or
hears. Flying a 20 minute show for these guys is just about the same
physical effort as playing an entire football game as a pro...BOTH ways!
And this doesn't even get into the mental strain!
Dudley Henriques


I appreciate your time sir. As a follow up, can I assume that there is no
"fine adjustment knob" to the throttle, and that the ease of movement with
respect to the throttle lever can be set to the pilot's preference?
--
Jeff 'The Wizard of Draws' Bucchino

Cartoons with a Touch of Magic�
http://www.wizardofdraws.com

More Cartoons with a Touch of Magic�
http://www.cartoonclipart.com

Generally, you turn your left hand into a micrometer tool by solidly
planting the outside of your palm on the throttle base and using that as a
fulcrum to make extremely small adjustments in power setting. You don't want
to be jockeying around with the power all that much anyway. It's all very
subtle and gently done. Your eyes hardly ever go to the tach. As pilots
become accustomed to a position, it's possible to actually check instruments
and hold position peripherally when going inverted through the float at the
top of a loop for example. This is especially true for the slot.
Dudley Henriques

"Wizard of Draws" wrote in message
news:C048C595.6B308%jeffbREMOVE@REMOVEwizardofdraw s.com...
On 3/23/06 8:43 PM, in article
et, "Dudley Henriques"
wrote:


"Wizard of Draws" wrote in message
news:C048B3AD.6AC96%jeffbREMOVE@REMOVEwizardofdraw s.com...
On 3/23/06 12:26 PM, in article
et, "Dudley Henriques"
wrote:
My question for a long time has been, how do they keep their speed
synchronized so well so they can maintain such tight formations? It
seems
to
me that small variations would have to creep into their engines,
requiring
micro adjustments to the throttle settings in flight. Do they have that
available, or are the engines so well maintained that X% of thrust on
Bird1
is _exactly_ the same as every other?
--
Jeff 'The Wizard of Draws' Bucchino

Formation that tight isn't done by an engine setting per se. It's done by
relative motion. For example, lead always "gives up" a few % in RPM as
his
full throttle position to give some play percentage wise to the lowest
power
setting in the formation. There's always a few RPM for the slot and 2
wings
to use if they need it.
As to holding position, it's done by relative motion on a single position
,
usually lead in the Diamond. Lead sets the power and everybody does
whatever
it takes to hold position. There is a set line of sight for each position
called a "paint" that coincides with a direct position line to that spot
on
another aircraft. Power is adjusted to maintain that paint. No attention
is
paid to what percent RPM is required to do that. It could very well vary
from position to position. The only thing that's important is that lead
is
off the throttle enough that the slowest plane (RPM wise) in the
formation,
has the excess power spread to hold the position.
There's a WHOLE lot going on with all this that the public never sees or
hears. Flying a 20 minute show for these guys is just about the same
physical effort as playing an entire football game as a pro...BOTH ways!
And this doesn't even get into the mental strain!
Dudley Henriques


I appreciate your time sir. As a follow up, can I assume that there is no
"fine adjustment knob" to the throttle, and that the ease of movement with
respect to the throttle lever can be set to the pilot's preference?
--
Jeff 'The Wizard of Draws' Bucchino

Cartoons with a Touch of Magic�
http://www.wizardofdraws.com

More Cartoons with a Touch of Magic�
http://www.cartoonclipart.com

In article m,
Wizard of Draws wrote:

On 3/23/06 12:26 PM, in article
et, "Dudley Henriques"
wrote:

Yes, they do "bump" once in a while in the formation. There have been
numerous sheet metal "benders" through the years. Naturally, these are
wingtip hits laterally rather than nose hits :-) I remember one of these
occasions quite vividly during the 73 season.
The flow patterns in the diamond are unique to close proximity similar
aircraft. I say similar because in a close Diamond of dis-similar aircraft,
the flow patterns would not be as predictable.
Tip vortices on the left and right wing positions in close tend to cause a
roll away from the opposite aircraft and have to be countered. You can
really feel this as you get in close.
Lead and the slot position have their trim affected as the slot sticks his
nose in where it should be. Lead can actually "feel" the slot in position
and knows by his trim change if the slot slides out too far. The trim change
is nose down for the lead and nose up for the slot, again caused by the flow
patterns.
It's not nearly as smooth in the Diamond as it looks to you from the ground.
There is a lot of movement going on in the formation, especially through
rough air. It takes intense concentration to hold position.
On the cross over question. They use pre-selected hack and checkpoints
briefed by photo recon before the show as well as radio calls when visual.
Timing on the high show bomb burst is a hack call down from lead to the
split S pull on his cadence. There is a visual call by each opposing
aircraft (lead/slot) (left/right wings) and adjustments made during the
downside recovery for altitude and airspeed to seek co-cross at show center.
Naturally, both sides of the runway are used. It saves a hell of a lot of
sheet metal work after the show :-)
Hope this helps a bit.
Dudley Henriques


My question for a long time has been, how do they keep their speed
synchronized so well so they can maintain such tight formations? It seems to
me that small variations would have to creep into their engines, requiring
micro adjustments to the throttle settings in flight. Do they have that
available, or are the engines so well maintained that X% of thrust on Bird1
is _exactly_ the same as every other?

In tight formation you don't even LOOK inside the cockpit! you have
reference points on the other aircraft that you keep in line and make
adjustments with throttle -- very often macro adjustments, rather than
micro. All flights are flow according to the briefing -- and -- all
flights are debriefed ASAP.

Get hold of the T-34 Association's formation manual to help get up to
speed.

Yes. The engine start is also worthwhile.


"Dudley Henriques" wrote in
message
ink.net...
|
| "Jim Macklin" wrote
in message
| news:jXHUf.544$t22.197@dukeread08...
| Flight of the Phoenix with Jimmy Stewart. Avoid the
modern
| version with the same title.
|
| The scene when Stewart and Attenborough find out Kruger is
a model airplane
| designer is worth the price of admission :-)))
| Dudley
|
|