Kite flying

On 2006-04-19, Skylune wrote:
I wonder if a collision with a kite is an FAA reportable incident. And,
would that then constitute sufficient proof of illegal low flying?

Like anything, it depends.

The notification requirement would be covered by NTSB 830 rather than
the FAA's regs. NTSB 830 says that it would be reportable, if:

(a) An aircraft accident or any of the following listed incidents
occur:
(1) Flight control system malfunction or failure;
(2) Inability of any required flight crewmember to perform
normal
flight duties as a result of injury or illness;
(3) Failure of structural components of a turbine engine
excluding
compressor and turbine blades and vanes;
(4) In-flight fire; or
(5) Aircraft collide in flight.
(6) Damage to property, other than the
aircraft, estimated to exceed
$25,000 for repair (including materials and
labor) or fair market value
in the event of total loss, whichever is
less.

Since a kite is not an aircraft, straight off the bat, it's not a
collision with another aircraft. If the collision with the kite causes
any of the other things listed above, then yes - it'll be reportable. If
it results in a bit of broken string, scratched paintwork and soiled
underwear, then no, it's not reportable.

As for the proof of illegal flying, this depends on:
- how long was the kite string? If it was over 500 feet, and the
aircraft was in an uncongested area, then no it wouldn't (and the kite
flyer may be in trouble).
- Was the aircraft approaching for landing or departing for takeoff? In
which case, no again.

Of course, if the string was 100 feet long and the plane wasn't taking
off or landing, then I'm sure the FAA could easily nail the pilot.

Basically - your second question can't be given a straight yes or no -
it depends on the circumstances.

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§ 101.13 Operating limitations.
(a) Except as provided in paragraph (b) of this section, no
person may operate a moored balloon or kite-

(1) Less than 500 feet from the base of any cloud;

(2) More than 500 feet above the surface of the earth;

(3) From an area where the ground visibility is less than
three miles; or

(4) Within five miles of the boundary of any airport.

(b) Paragraph (a) of this section does not apply to the
operation of a balloon or kite below the top of any
structure and within 250 feet of it, if that shielded
operation does not obscure any lighting on the structure.




--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P

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"Skylune" wrote in message
lkaboutaviation.com...
|I saw a few kids flying kites over the weekend. It
occurred to me: What
| if they were flying the kites real high in the vicinity of
GA airports? I
| don't think there are any laws about kite flying off
airport property.
|

On Tue, 18 Apr 2006 17:11:00 -0500, "Jim Macklin"
wrote:

§ 101.13 Operating limitations.
(a) Except as provided in paragraph (b) of this section, no
person may operate a moored balloon or kite...
snip

You guys have all missed the essential part; see 101.1(a)(2), which
says the rest of 101 applies to:
"Except as provided for in §101.7, any kite that weighs more than 5
pounds and is intended to be flown at the end of a rope or cable."

So except for 101.7, which says that " No person may operate any
moored balloon, kite, unmanned rocket, or unmanned free balloon in a
manner that creates a hazard to other persons, or their property,"
there are NO specific restrictions on kits weighing less than 5 lbs...
you can legally fly it anywhere, anytime, any altitude.

Full text at http://tinyurl.com/l7vcr .

R/C models: AFAIK there are no FAA regulations. The AMA (Academy of
Model Aeronautics, the national aeromodelling organization) has a
voluntary safety code that says, among other things, "I will not fly
my model aircraft higher than approximately 400 feet above ground
level, when within three (3) miles of an airport without notifying
the airport operator. I will yield the right-of-way and avoid flying
in the proximity of full-scale aircraft, utilizing a spotter when
appropriate." R/C models regularly fly from my local airport (N04)
along with GA, ultralights, paragliders, you name it.

-Dana
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by Dana M. Hague d(dash)m(dash)hague(at)comcast(dot)net Apr 19, 2006 at
09:53 PM


On Tue, 18 Apr 2006 17:11:00 -0500, "Jim Macklin"
wrote:

§ 101.13 Operating limitations.
(a) Except as provided in paragraph (b) of this section, no
person may operate a moored balloon or kite...
snip

You guys have all missed the essential part; see 101.1(a)(2), which
says the rest of 101 applies to:
"Except as provided for in §101.7, any kite that weighs more than 5
pounds and is intended to be flown at the end of a rope or cable."

So except for 101.7, which says that " No person may operate any
moored balloon, kite, unmanned rocket, or unmanned free balloon in a
manner that creates a hazard to other persons, or their property,"
there are NO specific restrictions on kits weighing less than 5 lbs...
you can legally fly it anywhere, anytime, any altitude.

Full text at http://tinyurl.com/l7vcr

On 2006-04-18, Skylune wrote:
I saw a few kids flying kites over the weekend. It occurred to me: What
if they were flying the kites real high in the vicinity of GA airports? I
don't think there are any laws about kite flying off airport property.

Yes there are - there is a section in the FARs covering kite flying. Of
course, most kite flyers have never heard of 14 CFR in the first place.

--
Dylan Smith, Port St Mary, Isle of Man
Flying: http://www.dylansmith.net
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Kids don't read FARs They don't look crossing the street either.
I saw a C150 hit a kit string one time. The string sawed a 3" gash in the
cowlening then wound up around the front hut and broke the front oil seal
Oil everywhere. Soiled pants Pilot.
Kids took off when kite was hit. Since this years ago, no one called FAA,
cops, or their lawyer. owner just fixed aircraft and we put some signs out
at the runway ends. Took some kids for rides and talked to them too. never
happened agin.


"Dylan Smith" wrote in message
...
On 2006-04-18, Skylune wrote:
I saw a few kids flying kites over the weekend. It occurred to me:
What
if they were flying the kites real high in the vicinity of GA airports?
I
don't think there are any laws about kite flying off airport property.

Yes there are - there is a section in the FARs covering kite flying. Of
course, most kite flyers have never heard of 14 CFR in the first place.

--
Dylan Smith, Port St Mary, Isle of Man
Flying: http://www.dylansmith.net
Oolite-Linux: an Elite tribute: http://oolite-linux.berlios.de
Frontier Elite Universe: http://www.alioth.net

Skylune wrote:

I saw a few kids flying kites over the weekend. It occurred to me: What
if they were flying the kites real high in the vicinity of GA airports? I
don't think there are any laws about kite flying off airport property.


I used to fly RC planes at a park that was with in 3 miles of KOKC.
When the real planes flew over, they were higher than the RC planes.
However, the typical traffic patters didn't bring planes over the park,
so it was pretty rare to have one directly over head. I wonder if the
controllers saw us on radar? The engine was the only thing in most
planes that would reflect radar and they aren't very big. Anyway, no
one from the FAA ever came by to complain and we used to fly there on a
pretty regular basis. There were kids flying kites at that same park, as
I recall the RC planes were usually quite a bit higher than the kites,
however there was this one time an RC helicopter impacted a kite, the
kite's death was instantaneous, the helicopter died shortly after, when
it fell to the ground. I'm sure it was a spectacular impact, but I
didn't turn my head quick enough to see it

--
Chris W
KE5GIX

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by Chris W Apr 19, 2006 at 11:51 AM



I used to fly RC planes at a park that was with in 3 miles of KOKC.
When the real planes flew over, they were higher than the RC planes.
However, the typical traffic patters didn't bring planes over the park,
so it was pretty rare to have one directly over head. I wonder if the
controllers saw us on radar? The engine was the only thing in most
planes that would reflect radar and they aren't very big. Anyway, no
one from the FAA ever came by to complain and we used to fly there on a
pretty regular basis. There were kids flying kites at that same park, as
I recall the RC planes were usually quite a bit higher than the kites,
however there was this one time an RC helicopter impacted a kite, the
kite's death was instantaneous, the helicopter died shortly after, when
it fell to the ground. I'm sure it was a spectacular impact, but I
didn't turn my head quick enough to see it



The kite caused the helo to crash???? Do you have an NTSB number or date?
I'd love to read about that one.

I re-read those FAA regs. I wonder who at the FAA I need to contact to
get permission to fly a kite over 250 feet. Do they have a division of
kite compliance? Who the hell would enforce it, esp since they don't
enforce minimums for the planes.

Man, I hope Boyer doesn't "take on" the poor kid who gets a kite for his
birthday, and unwittingly breaks the FARs.

Skylune wrote:



The kite caused the helo to crash???? Do you have an NTSB number or date?
I'd love to read about that one.


Apparently you missed those important 2 letters "RC" as in Remote
Control, in front of helicopter. So no NTSB report just an unhappy kid
with a kite that is no more and a very annoyed RC helicopter pilot, with
a lot of work to do and a lot of money to spend before he will fly again.

--
Chris W
KE5GIX

Gift Giving Made Easy
Get the gifts you want &
give the gifts they want
One stop wish list for any gift,
from anywhere, for any occasion!
http://thewishzone.com

Chris W wrote:
Anyway, no
one from the FAA ever came by to complain and we used to fly there on a
pretty regular basis.

There have been r/c vs. full scale conflicts around an r/c club at a
turf farm located south of HFD, where the FAA has complained. No
accidents that I know of, but complaints have been lodged. The
particular club has a large "giant scale" membership, so I suspect that
many of the planes weren't as close to full scales as the full scale
pilots may have perceived.

On the other hand, I've flown r/c @ active, open airports, with
permission. In that case, we simply used a spotter and landed the r/c
stuff until the full scale was clear of the runway. Kind of like street
hockey. If a plane appears in the pattern, someone yells "plane", and
we stop, and then someone yells "game on!" when the full scale is clear.
Other times, we'd have scanners or handhelds listening for approach calls.

Woodstock, CT, now a private field, even lists r/c activity in NOTAMS
and on airnav.com.

Before the current stadium was built, r/c was frequently flown at P&W's
East Hartford facility. Tethered balloons were flown to demonstrate
max. altitude to r/c pilots, to prevent conflicts with HFD.