Learning from an owner annual

Robert M. Gary wrote:

Its quite depressing to see my plane in so many pieces. I've also discovered that its extreamly irritating that the aircraft parts places are closed on weekends.

Agree with your general premise that owner participation is a plus, in a
lot of ways.

The "parts places closed on weekends" deal"....well, welcome to the
aviation industry mindset. I owned two airplanes, from the mid-80s till
last year, and I ran into that inconvenience repeatedly over the years,
when I became aware I needed stuff, but, the suppliers only were open
"banker's hours". So, even though they want usurious prices for what
they sell, they'll only do it when it's convenient. I find that
attitude quite arrogant.

They get away with it, obviously, because they, like all the rest of the
aviation "service" industry, are acutely aware that unless you source,
procure, and *PAY THROUGH YOUR *NOSE* FOR" all those items necessary for
"airworthiness", your airplane is GROUNDED. And, they *know* you don't
want to ground your airplane. It's a federally-sanctioned racket.

I sold my last airplane. I don't need that frustration. I haven't
missed it.

If it has a aircraft part number such as AN, NAS and such.
The materials and treatment [strength] must be in
conformance with the standard. Torx, Phillips, Reed-Prince
[looks like a Phillips but is sharp pointed] plain slot can
all meet the standard.


--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
oups.com...
| I strip a fair number of screws every year -- but I've
NEVER had to
| drill any out on either of the planes we've owned.
|
| Can you replace them with Torx screws?
|
| I don't know.
|
| In the "real world" that is a no-brainer. In the bizarro
world of the
| FAA, I have no idea if Torx screws are legal...
|
| Toecutter? Jim Weir? Jim Macklin? Can we, as owners,
use any old
| fasteners we want for all those access panels?
| --
| Jay Honeck
| Iowa City, IA
| Pathfinder N56993
| www.AlexisParkInn.com
| "Your Aviation Destination"
|

There are some parts suppliers who are open 5-1/2 days and
have 24/7 phone service and AOG parts out 24/7.

You do have to look for them.


--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P

"CriticalMass" wrote in message
...
|
|
| Robert M. Gary wrote:
|
| Its quite depressing to see my plane in so many pieces.
I've also discovered that its extreamly irritating that the
aircraft parts places are closed on weekends.
|
| Agree with your general premise that owner participation
is a plus, in a
| lot of ways.
|
| The "parts places closed on weekends" deal"....well,
welcome to the
| aviation industry mindset. I owned two airplanes, from
the mid-80s till
| last year, and I ran into that inconvenience repeatedly
over the years,
| when I became aware I needed stuff, but, the suppliers
only were open
| "banker's hours". So, even though they want usurious
prices for what
| they sell, they'll only do it when it's convenient. I
find that
| attitude quite arrogant.
|
| They get away with it, obviously, because they, like all
the rest of the
| aviation "service" industry, are acutely aware that unless
you source,
| procure, and *PAY THROUGH YOUR *NOSE* FOR" all those items
necessary for
| "airworthiness", your airplane is GROUNDED. And, they
*know* you don't
| want to ground your airplane. It's a federally-sanctioned
racket.
|
| I sold my last airplane. I don't need that frustration.
I haven't
| missed it.

You know what? I've been through this one so many times, but it's been
a few years, and I just don't have the energy to fight this fight
again.

There is NO "torque-limiting" power screwdriver-type tool that has both
the ability to prevent over-tightening, and allow sufficient "torque"
to be applied to screws installed into aircraft nutplates.

A slightly boogered screw or nutplate will NOT be tightened
sufficiently, or else other screws will be over-tightened-there is NO
middle ground.

In most cases, a quality torque-limiting screwdriver set at minimal
torque can be used by an experienced operator to run screws and
initially secure panels. The final "ginch" needs to be performed by a
human that knows what the **** he/she is doing.

There is a large portion of the "certified technician" population that
isn't smart enuff to use the proper bit for the type of screw to be
r/r'd, let alone to use power to drive it. It's not much of a stretch
to say that this applies to owner-performed maintenance also.

TC

Yes and bits are cheap, use new Phillips bits regularly.
Once the screwdriver is damaged it will destroy all the
screw slots afterward.

If the screws have paint in the slot, clean it out before
you try to unscrew the fastener.

--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P

--
The people think the Constitution protects their rights;
But government sees it as an obstacle to be overcome.
some support
http://www.usdoj.gov/olc/secondamendment2.htm
See http://www.fija.org/ more about your rights and duties.



wrote in message
oups.com...
| You know what? I've been through this one so many times,
but it's been
| a few years, and I just don't have the energy to fight
this fight
| again.
|
| There is NO "torque-limiting" power screwdriver-type tool
that has both
| the ability to prevent over-tightening, and allow
sufficient "torque"
| to be applied to screws installed into aircraft nutplates.
|
| A slightly boogered screw or nutplate will NOT be
tightened
| sufficiently, or else other screws will be
over-tightened-there is NO
| middle ground.
|
| In most cases, a quality torque-limiting screwdriver set
at minimal
| torque can be used by an experienced operator to run
screws and
| initially secure panels. The final "ginch" needs to be
performed by a
| human that knows what the **** he/she is doing.
|
| There is a large portion of the "certified technician"
population that
| isn't smart enuff to use the proper bit for the type of
screw to be
| r/r'd, let alone to use power to drive it. It's not much
of a stretch
| to say that this applies to owner-performed maintenance
also.
|
| TC
|

wrote in message
oups.com...
You know what? I've been through this one so many times, but it's been
a few years, and I just don't have the energy to fight this fight
again.

There is NO "torque-limiting" power screwdriver-type tool that has both
the ability to prevent over-tightening, and allow sufficient "torque"
to be applied to screws installed into aircraft nutplates.




But... a power screwdriver set below the specified torque for a screw and
then torqued by hand with a calibrated torque wrench set to the proper
setting will work just fine, or am I wrong?

I believe that I am restating your paragraph below, but in a way that my son
or mother could read it.





A slightly boogered screw or nutplate will NOT be tightened
sufficiently, or else other screws will be over-tightened-there is NO
middle ground.



We were taught in A&P school not to reuse fasteners. I doubt very seriously
that this actually happens in the real world, but in the schools perfect
world, this should eleminate *most* of the "boogered" fastener problems.





In most cases, a quality torque-limiting screwdriver set at minimal
torque can be used by an experienced operator to run screws and
initially secure panels. The final "ginch" needs to be performed by a
human that knows what the **** he/she is doing.

There is a large portion of the "certified technician" population that
isn't smart enuff to use the proper bit for the type of screw to be
r/r'd, let alone to use power to drive it. It's not much of a stretch
to say that this applies to owner-performed maintenance also.

TC





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New fasteners are cheaper than the labor to inspect and
clean old fasteners.




--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P

"C. Massey" wrote in message
. net...
|
| wrote in message
|
oups.com...
| You know what? I've been through this one so many times,
but it's been
| a few years, and I just don't have the energy to fight
this fight
| again.
|
| There is NO "torque-limiting" power screwdriver-type
tool that has both
| the ability to prevent over-tightening, and allow
sufficient "torque"
| to be applied to screws installed into aircraft
nutplates.
|
|
|
|
| But... a power screwdriver set below the specified torque
for a screw and
| then torqued by hand with a calibrated torque wrench set
to the proper
| setting will work just fine, or am I wrong?
|
| I believe that I am restating your paragraph below, but in
a way that my son
| or mother could read it.
|
|
|
|
|
| A slightly boogered screw or nutplate will NOT be
tightened
| sufficiently, or else other screws will be
over-tightened-there is NO
| middle ground.
|
|
|
| We were taught in A&P school not to reuse fasteners. I
doubt very seriously
| that this actually happens in the real world, but in the
schools perfect
| world, this should eleminate *most* of the "boogered"
fastener problems.
|
|
|
|
|
| In most cases, a quality torque-limiting screwdriver set
at minimal
| torque can be used by an experienced operator to run
screws and
| initially secure panels. The final "ginch" needs to be
performed by a
| human that knows what the **** he/she is doing.
|
| There is a large portion of the "certified technician"
population that
| isn't smart enuff to use the proper bit for the type of
screw to be
| r/r'd, let alone to use power to drive it. It's not much
of a stretch
| to say that this applies to owner-performed maintenance
also.
|
| TC
|
|
|
|
|
| ---
| avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean.
| Virus Database (VPS): 0619-3, 05/12/2006
| Tested on: 5/14/2006 9:55:47 PM
| avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2006 ALWIL Software.
| http://www.avast.com
|
|
|

wrote:
You know what? I've been through this one so many times, but it's been
a few years, and I just don't have the energy to fight this fight
again.

There is NO "torque-limiting" power screwdriver-type tool that has both
the ability to prevent over-tightening, and allow sufficient "torque"
to be applied to screws installed into aircraft nutplates.

I guess I should have been more clear. I didn't intend to use the
screwdriver to set the screws to the proper torque, I never trust those
kind of tools for that, just to get it in with out getting them too
tight. On any thing that is important, I always go back over it with a
hand driver to finish the job and get them tight. Also why would anyone
reuse a screw with messed up threads? Just get a new one already. The
nut plate is another story though, those are a bit of work to replace so
I guess it would depend on just how bad the threads were.

--
Chris W
KE5GIX

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CriticalMass wrote:
They get away with it, obviously, because they, like all the rest of
the
aviation "service" industry, are acutely aware that unless you source,
procure, and *PAY THROUGH YOUR *NOSE* FOR" all those items necessary for
"airworthiness", your airplane is GROUNDED. And, they *know* you don't
want to ground your airplane. It's a federally-sanctioned racket.

Could it not also be that there just isn't enough business for them to
justify keeping the same hours that the auto parts stores do?

--
Chris W
KE5GIX

Gift Giving Made Easy
Get the gifts you want &
give the gifts they want
One stop wish list for any gift,
from anywhere, for any occasion!
http://thewishzone.com

Kyle Boatright wrote:
Exactly right. If you look through the Aircraft Spruce catalog
you'll find
several different strengths of screws. Some are 30,000 lb/square inch, some
are 55,000/square inch, etc. In some applications (probably the Navion, as
pointed out above), it makes a difference which screw you use. If you go
down to the local hardware store and buy Torx fasteners, you'll probably
never know if the fastener you chose has the correct strength.

That's one of the reasons I get all my hardware for any project form
McMaster.com. They tell you what material is used and what the strength
is. BTW I just looked on their 18-8 stainless steel screws, it looks
like they are 70,000 or 80,000 psi. They don't seem to have any flat
head torx screws in stainless steel for some reason though.


--
Chris W
KE5GIX

Gift Giving Made Easy
Get the gifts you want &
give the gifts they want
One stop wish list for any gift,
from anywhere, for any occasion!
http://thewishzone.com