The LEX crash - A CRM view

Recently, Kingfish posted:

[...]The other thing
that bothers me is that *both* pilots were oblivious to being on the
wrong runway. When I fly the Pilatus (private charter) the checklist
requires us to set the heading bug on the runway - it's part of the
line-up check. I'm sure Comair has a similar checklist to the one we
use, and I'm amazed something like this could happen.

If you pull onto the runway and set your bug to the runway you THINK
you're on without verifying it against the compass or some other piece of
gear, you haven't improved your safety one bit. OTOH, I'd be surprised if
the Comair didn't have a number of additional checks to make, such as GPS,
that should have exposed the error prior to rolling.

Neil

B A R R Y wrote:

On Sat, 23 Sep 2006 18:17:06 GMT, Judah wrote:


Oh wait, there was a second pilot aboard the aircraft...

There were actually (3), no?

It'll be interesting if the final NTSB report shows the off-duty pilot
as a distraction.

Was another (third) off duty pilot in the cockpit? I have heard that
rumor but have not heard a factual account that he was in (or would
even fit) in the cockpit.

Ron Lee

"Judah" wrote in message
. ..

Nor at the proper instruments on their panel.


Perhaps they neglected to turn on instrument lights as well.



Mistakes happen, and it's unfortunate. But 3 professionals were too busy
with
other things to catch the mistake. Why is there any reason to think that a
4th would have been any less so?


What other thing might the two professionals in the cockpit have been too
busy with?

"Neil Gould" wrote in message
m...

If you pull onto the runway and set your bug to the runway you THINK
you're on without verifying it against the compass or some other piece of
gear, you haven't improved your safety one bit. OTOH, I'd be surprised if
the Comair didn't have a number of additional checks to make, such as GPS,
that should have exposed the error prior to rolling.


I think it unlikely the crew would have to set the DG to the compass.

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in
ink.net:

What other thing might the two professionals in the cockpit have been too
busy with?

I have no idea. I wasn't there. But I would hate to think that they took off
on the wrong runway intentionally.

(Ron Lee) wrote:

B A R R Y wrote:

Judah wrote:

Oh wait, there was a second pilot aboard the aircraft...

There were actually (3), no?

It'll be interesting if the final NTSB report shows the off-duty
pilot as a distraction.

Was another (third) off duty pilot in the cockpit? I have heard that
rumor but have not heard a factual account that he was in (or would
even fit) in the cockpit.

There was a deadheading AirTran pilot on the flight. Given he was from
another airline, by FAA security rules, he would not have been allowed into
the cockpit, but would have been riding in the back.

"Judah" wrote in message
. ..

I have no idea. I wasn't there. But I would hate to think that they took
off
on the wrong runway intentionally.


Well, they must have been doing something other than what they were supposed
to be doing. It's pretty clear that neither one of them was performing the
duties of "pilot".

That actually wasn't the point of my asking. Ok let me phrase it this
way... if this exact thing had happened on a 20,000 foot runway with no
other traffic in sight, you'd still not have pointed out the error as
PNF?

Ramapriya


WRE (remove nospam) wrote:
Are you kidding....I would never open my mouth if someone was about to do
something that was going to kill me...I would just it there quietly and
die.....


wrote in message
ups.com...
If as PNF you notice that the PF has just turned on to the wrong runway
to commence the takeoff roll, are you permitted to alert him (can't see
why not, actually, if lives are likely to be on the line) to it or are
you expected to just shut up and let him make the call? Presume for the
moment that the Capn is PF, which I hear wasn't the case in the LEX
incident...

Ramapriya

Recently, Steven P. McNicoll posted:

"Neil Gould" wrote in message
m...

If you pull onto the runway and set your bug to the runway you THINK
you're on without verifying it against the compass or some other
piece of gear, you haven't improved your safety one bit. OTOH, I'd
be surprised if the Comair didn't have a number of additional checks
to make, such as GPS, that should have exposed the error prior to
rolling.


I think it unlikely the crew would have to set the DG to the compass.

If not, then how is setting the DG much help in determining the runway
that one is on?

Neil

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in
. net:


"Judah" wrote in message
. ..

I have no idea. I wasn't there. But I would hate to think that they
took off on the wrong runway intentionally.


Well, they must have been doing something other than what they were
supposed to be doing. It's pretty clear that neither one of them was
performing the duties of "pilot".

Exactly.