Icing conditions

Ron Garret writes:

Obviously not. It has to be cold too.

Yes, but the leading edge of the wing might be colder than the cloud.
When water drops hit it, they solidify, then you have ice on the wing.

This is similar to the problem with cold-soaked wings on airliners
when they land at a warm and humid airport.

These things are ultimately judgement calls, and depend on the risk
profile you wish to adopt. Since you're flying a sim it's a moot point.
Pick a policy; one is as good as another.

Sims crash, too.

That depends on your sim. I'd consult the manual.

The manual doesn't describe symptoms.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

I have to agree Andrew..

I am convinced thatr somewhere behind "Mxmaniac" must be a tolerant
gentleman...

I "tolerated" a lot of questions from a guy about 6 months ago. He
was flying a sim... And the questions would fall into the "stupid"
category within some opinions here...

So I showed him around our Warrior, let him sit in the left seat...
(1st time in a light plane). He recognised all the instruments,
controls and functions...

I saw him at the airport 3 months later..

He had signed up for pilot training and was working on landings ( at
about 6 hrs).....

So I will take a chance on another who may become a "real" pilot
someday...if they show an interest in aviation...

OK, maybe I just have a thick skin, or I just don't take myself very
seriously...

If anybody offends me, I just ignore them....they fade away after a
while... Mx has not offended me...

And I am NOT going to impress my opinion on others. I am not going to
encourage others to respond to him, and I must confess I am beginning
to tire of others (more than) suggesting that I (we) NOT respond to
him.

If anyone in this group offends me, I will determine it was not a
misunderstanding, make them aware, and move on. I feel no need to
blacklist anyone.

It was 30 some years ago when I was pumping "stupid" questions to a
pilot.. I am glad he was patient and encouraged me to keep
dreaming. But it was still some time before I could afford to train
to become a "real" pilot.

Cheers!

Dave




, I just move on On 29 Nov 2006 13:39:38 -0800, "Andrew Sarangan"
wrote:

I am not sure why you guys are beating up the guy. He may not be a real
pilot, but I have not found his questions to be offensive, off-topic or
even ignorant. To the contrary, he has posed several questions in the
past that many of us were unable to answer, or revealed lack of
knowledge on our part. In those cases, it is the real pilots who I have
seen to misbehave. I can't recall Mxsmanic to have lost his cool
despite all the things that poeple call him.


A Lieberma wrote:
"Jim Macklin" wrote in
:

Too many systems to explain here, read the POH or a good
training manual.

Talk about wasted advise.....

Mx doesn't even read the replies, much less anything he's been shown to
read like references or POHs.

Allen

Dave wrote in
:

I "tolerated" a lot of questions from a guy about 6 months ago. He
was flying a sim... And the questions would fall into the "stupid"
category within some opinions here...

So I showed him around our Warrior, let him sit in the left seat...
(1st time in a light plane). He recognised all the instruments,
controls and functions...

I saw him at the airport 3 months later..

He had signed up for pilot training and was working on landings ( at
about 6 hrs).....

So I will take a chance on another who may become a "real" pilot
someday...if they show an interest in aviation...

Dave,

What you describe is great above. I have been there and done it myself,
and posted my experiences on a post "Why I fly" to the
rec.aviation.piloting and rec.aviation.student newsgroups.

Here is the difference between what you describe above and Mx.

Your flight simmer went to the airport with you. Your simmer got in the
plane with you. Your simmer signed up for lessons. YOUR SIMMER
APPRECIATED the time vested. The unasked question is the dumb question.

I will take a fence sitter up any chance I get so I can take away the
mystery of the magic of flight and welcome all dumb questions.

Now, let's talk a little about Mx.....

He badgers every reply.
He can't afford flying.
He says it's too dangerous.
The equipment in our planes are unreliable.
He needs to see the pilot fly before he would get in a plane with him
(How this will happen is beyond my comprehension).

His sim doesn't jive up with real world experiences, I.E human physiology
interacting with flight. He has no intention of getting in a plane. He
has no intention of learning the real world experiences, only badger the
repliers to his good questions with sim experiences that doesn't equate.
I.E leans in IMC vs getting so called dizzy sitting in front of a
computer monitor.

Again, questions raised by Mx is not the problem. Simmers posting
questions is not the problem. Arm chair pilots posting question is not
the problem

THE PROBLEM IS THE LACK OF RESPECT SHOWN BY MX for real world experiences
THAT CANNOT BE SIMULATED IN A SIM. I do make the assumption you fly a
real plane and can understand what I am trying to convey.

Why folks are putting up with this disrespect is beyond my
comprehension....

TROLLS NEED TO BE IGNORED....

Allen

To expand upon this (a bit of a play on words here) The
boots work by expanding outward and breaking the ice. If
the thin ice adheres to the boot, it can get pushed outward,
but not cracked and blown off as pieces. The pushed outward
ice can freeze with the boot inflated forming a cavity
between the subsequently deflated boot and the ice. The ice
then builds up on the outside of this ice cavity and the
boot can't break it off because it doesn't push against the
inside of the ice cavity.

That's the theory. I've been to several safety seminars at which this
theory was debunked, at least as to modern boots. It is also
discredited in the NASA icing video.

Jose
--
"There are 3 secrets to the perfect landing. Unfortunately, nobody knows
what they are." - (mike).
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

"Jay Beckman" wrote in
:

- Consider GA to be comprised of nothing but "Tin Cans" and/or "Bug
Smashers"

You were right on with all but this one...

We all talk about ourselves as flying Tin Cans and Bug Smashers... It's
hypocritical to condemn someone else (even MX) for using the same language.

(OK - here comes the big controversy...)
It's the same type of hypocrisy that I believe exists among people who
complain about being called derogatory names, and then refer to each other
"jokingly" using the same bad words.

A Lieberma wrote in
. 18:

"Steve Foley" wrote in news:BRlbh.12790

He can always pause and go to the fridge for more fluids.

Better yet, use the hot water from his sink.


Or pee.

"Judah" wrote in message
. ..
"Jay Beckman" wrote in
:

- Consider GA to be comprised of nothing but "Tin Cans" and/or "Bug
Smashers"

You were right on with all but this one...

We all talk about ourselves as flying Tin Cans and Bug Smashers... It's
hypocritical to condemn someone else (even MX) for using the same
language.

(OK - here comes the big controversy...)
It's the same type of hypocrisy that I believe exists among people who
complain about being called derogatory names, and then refer to each other
"jokingly" using the same bad words.

The difference?

Our Albatross flies a desk...I actually FLY.

So thankyouverymuch but I'll refer to light GA aircraft in whatever terms I
choose and I don't give a tinkers damn if I come off sounding high and
mighty.

Jay Beckman
PP-ASEL
Chandler, AZ

"A Lieberma" wrote in message
. 18...
"Jay Beckman" wrote in
:

Then guess what, you're going to be handed your hat and shown the
door. And if you happen to catch a great big size eight in the ass as
you go..fine by me.

Good to see you in here Jay :-) I was hoping you didn't drop off the
radar
due to the mayhem of lete since I haven't seen you post of late.

We need a few size eights to reign in OUR group!

Allen

LOL...

Hi Allen...

I'm still here and at r.a.p. but I'm just so blown away by where this
tragicomedy is at that I find my fingers are speechless most of the time.

Jay B

In article ,
Mxsmanic wrote:

Ron Garret writes:

Obviously not. It has to be cold too.

Yes, but the leading edge of the wing might be colder than the cloud.
When water drops hit it, they solidify, then you have ice on the wing.

Yes, that is possible. Nonetheless, it has to be cold. Exactly how
cold depends a lot on the particular circumstances. The first time I
had ice my OAT read 3C (which is why it took me by surprise). YMMV.

This is similar to the problem with cold-soaked wings on airliners
when they land at a warm and humid airport.

There is no such problem. (This is not to say that no ice forms under
such conditions, only that it is never a problem, especially not in an
airliner.)

These things are ultimately judgement calls, and depend on the risk
profile you wish to adopt. Since you're flying a sim it's a moot point.
Pick a policy; one is as good as another.

Sims crash, too.

Yes, especially when they run on Windows.

That depends on your sim. I'd consult the manual.

The manual doesn't describe symptoms.

Then I'd say you're screwed. It is unlikely in the extreme that your
sim has anything remotely approaching a realistic model of ice
formation. Absent documentation, the only way I can think of to figure
out what kind of crude hack it has it to reverse-engineer the code.

You did say you are a computer expert, right?

rg

In article ,
Mxsmanic wrote:

T o d d P a t t i s t writes:

To expand upon this (a bit of a play on words here) The
boots work by expanding outward and breaking the ice. If
the thin ice adheres to the boot, it can get pushed outward,
but not cracked and blown off as pieces. The pushed outward
ice can freeze with the boot inflated forming a cavity
between the subsequently deflated boot and the ice. The ice
then builds up on the outside of this ice cavity and the
boot can't break it off because it doesn't push against the
inside of the ice cavity. The boot just inflates and
deflates between the ice and the wing without doing
anything.

Interesting! I had never thought of that. I was wondering how using
boots too early would prevent them from removing ice later; now I
know.

I don't think small aircraft like a Baron are usually equipped with
boots, though (?).

Allow me to introduce you to Google. Google is your friend.

http://www.google.com/search?q=baron+58+boots

rg