Plane plunges into sewage tank, disappears

There is also the possibility of an uncommanded loss of power in one engine
while at or near VMC. Real failures occasionally happen at inconvenient
times.

Peter
"Jim Macklin" wrote in message
...
The sad facts is that many airplanes will not recover from a
fully developed spin with the CG aft of the utility category
limit or with three people onboard or any baggage. If a
student gets into a spin and there is any delay in recovery
or any "fight" over the controls, the outcome will be
tragic.

Some maneuvers should not be done with any passengers, even
an observer or CFI in the back seats.


The meeting was a good thing as was the decision not to fly
that day. The boss's support was good too.





"Al G" wrote in message
...
|
| "Cecil Chapman" wrote in
message
| . net...
| Shoki, one of the three that were killed was one of my
fellow CFI's at my
| FBO. While I only knew him in the day-to-day
operations at our FBO, he
| was always one of the warmest and friendliest person you
could hope to
| meet. The day he and his students died in that
incredulously tragic crash
| I found myself trying to reconcile that I had just seen
him earlier that
| day, walking by my desk in the CFI office area, smiling
and waving as he
| always would as he went off to his flight instruction
duties.
|
| The day after the accident all the CFI's met at the FBO,
although none of
| us had any desire to fly; both out of respect for our
fallen friend and
| because we were distracted by the loss of three of our
own and were just
| not fit to fly.
|
| We hung around at the FBO for many hours (after an early
morning meeting
| where the announcement was shared - we were told to feel
free to
| decline/cancel any flights and to respect the wishes of
any of our
| students that were not up to flying that day). The
thoughts we shared
| went back and forth between the ones lost and the 'what
could have gone
| wrong' discussions.
|
| The site of the accident was around the practice area
that most of us
| visit regularly with our students. The uncanny
'accuracy' (for lack of a
| better word) that the plane went down into the sewage
pond was
| dumbfounding. Of course, the cruel irony of meeting
one's end in a raw
| sewage pond made the tragedy seem all the more poignant.
They had to use
| a high pressure hose with heavily chlorinated water to
wash of the
| aircraft wreckage and the bodies before copter lifting
the wreckage (along
| with the bodies - secured in by tarps and ropes) out of
the emptied sewage
| pond and then set down on a clear area nearby.
|
| The wreckage was taken to Sacramento for study and the
bodies were take to
| the coroner.
|
| One of our CFI's had been flying by the area and saw an
aircraft spinning
| in, but she had said that she was so high and the plane
so low, that it
| looked almost like a model radio airplane. It was after
she landed that
| she realized what she had just witnessed. Shoki had
been one of her very
| close friends at the flight school.
|
| I didn't know the students very well, although I
obviously knew them by
| sight, in the day-to-day operations of the FBO.
|
| I had been told years ago that if you fly long enough
you will eventually
| know someone who dies. Although another nearby business
lost their owner
| in a plane accident, this is the first time that this
kind of tragedy has
| struck in the 'home nest', as it were.
|
| I took one of my students up for a flight yesterday and
although the mood
| to the aircraft was a somber one, talking about the
loss - once we were in
| the air, we both did what we had to do and focused our
minds on the task.
|
| There had been so many posts on this thread (which I
wouldn't have noticed
| until a friend mentioned the thread on this newsgroup;
usually I'm just on
| RAS), I just felt it important to put a human side,
personal account of
| the loss my flight school has gone through. There are
three burning
| candles with offerings of flowers on our front desk,
commemorating the
| loss.
|
| This was a profound loss that will be felt for some
time.
|
|
| --
| --
| =-----
| Good Flights!
|
| Cecil E. Chapman
| CFI-A, CP-ASEL-IA
|
| Check out my personal flying adventures from my first
flight to the
| checkride AND the continuing adventures beyond!
| Complete with pictures and text at:
www.bayareapilot.com
|
| "I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of
petty things."
| - Antoine de Saint-Exupery -
|
| "We who fly, do so for the love of flying. We are alive
in the air with
| this miracle that lies in our hands and beneath our
feet"
| - Cecil Day Lewis -
|
| Thanks, we had been wondering about you. Fate is the
hunter, sometimes
| it strikes VERY close to home. Hang in there.
|
| Al G
|
|

There is also the possibility of an uncommanded loss of power in one
engine
while at or near VMC. Real failures occasionally happen at inconvenient
times.

Peter
"Jim Macklin" wrote in message


Of course, it is just us 'guessing' but I too think that is one of the most
likely scenarios. In fact, one of the first ones that was mentioned when we
were all at my FBO the day after trying to sort out the 'how' of the
accident.

--
=-----
Good Flights!

Cecil E. Chapman
CFI-A, CP-ASEL-IA

Check out my personal flying adventures from my first flight to the
checkride AND the continuing adventures beyond!
Complete with pictures and text at: www.bayareapilot.com

"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery -

"We who fly, do so for the love of flying. We are alive in the air with
this miracle that lies in our hands and beneath our feet"
- Cecil Day Lewis -

Pretty hard to miss. Which portion of CA is not a sewage tank...?
-----

This is an inappropriate and disgusting comment especially in the light
of this tragedy.

The Beech 95-55 and the Baron with a two blade prop behaves
differently with a rotating prop or a feathered prop, and
the stall/spin characteristics is different depending on
whether the prop is stopped along or perpendicular to the
wing. I know some people who have spun a twin accidentally
and recovered, but they had empty backseats and no baggage.

Beech did in fact do the full series of spin tests on the
Duchess but decided not to certify for intentional spins.
The US Army did extensive spin testing on the Baron as part
of the Army's acceptance of the Baron as the T-42
http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...craft/t-42.htm

It is likely that the FAA/NTSB investigation will be just
more guesses. Just what was being done, what actions for
recovery were tried and initial entry altitudes may never be
known. It is too bad.



"Cecil Chapman" wrote in
message
t...
| The sad facts is that many airplanes will not recover
from a
| fully developed spin with the CG aft of the utility
category
| limit or with three people onboard or any baggage. If a
| student gets into a spin and there is any delay in
recovery
| or any "fight" over the controls, the outcome will be
| tragic.
|
| Some maneuvers should not be done with any passengers,
even
| an observer or CFI in the back seats.
|
|
| The meeting was a good thing as was the decision not to
fly
| that day. The boss's support was good too.
|
| The crash occurred in a Beechcraft Travelair (a
multi-engine airplane) and
| there is no published procedure on how to even recover
from a spin in one of
| these aircraft should a spin develop.
|
| None of us were going to fly the day after and you're
quite right that the
| chief pilot was right on about honoring our feelings and
those of our
| students in the matter. Shoki was a very good friend of
his and you could
| see as he was telling us how deeply affected by the loss
(and those of the
| students) he was.
|
| --
| --
| =-----
| Good Flights!
|
| Cecil E. Chapman
| CFI-A, CP-ASEL-IA
|
| Check out my personal flying adventures from my first
flight to the
| checkride AND the continuing adventures beyond!
| Complete with pictures and text at: www.bayareapilot.com
|
| "I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of
petty things."
| - Antoine de Saint-Exupery -
|
| "We who fly, do so for the love of flying. We are alive
in the air with
| this miracle that lies in our hands and beneath our feet"
| - Cecil Day Lewis -
|
|

Not true, but they must be promptly and forcefully recovered
before becoming stabilized. It also helps to have but props
rotating and at idle. The position of a feathered prop can
act as a rudder or a spoiler. Some twins are heavily span
loaded and others have the mass concentrated in the
fuselage.

Very few twins are spin tested and there is little public
information about any particular model.

But any accidental spin is a killer, more so in a twin.



"Danny Deger" wrote in message
...
|
| "Cecil Chapman" wrote in
message
| news:NuAih.5082$
| snip
| The sad facts is that many airplanes will not recover
from a
| fully developed spin with the CG aft of the utility
category
| limit or with three people onboard or any baggage. If
a
| student gets into a spin and there is any delay in
recovery
| or any "fight" over the controls, the outcome will be
| tragic.
|
| Some maneuvers should not be done with any passengers,
even
| an observer or CFI in the back seats.
|
|
| The meeting was a good thing as was the decision not to
fly
| that day. The boss's support was good too.
|
| The crash occurred in a Beechcraft Travelair (a
multi-engine airplane) and
| there is no published procedure on how to even recover
from a spin in one
| of these aircraft should a spin develop.
|
|
| My understanding is most multi-engine planes will not
recover from a spin.
| They tend to spin flat without a chance of recovery.
|
| Danny Deger
|
|
|

wrote:

Pretty hard to miss. Which portion of CA is not a sewage tank...?
-----

This is an inappropriate and disgusting comment especially in the light
of this tragedy.

If I pretend CA isn't a ******** for 5 seconds, will that make it all
better...? closes eyes and pretends That's all the energy I'm
willing to expend... and, I insist on a clause where I "admit no
wrongdoing".
-----

- gpsman

wrote in message
oups.com...


Pretty hard to miss. Which portion of CA is not a sewage tank...?
-----

This is an inappropriate and disgusting comment especially in the light
of this tragedy.


Welcome to usenet!

This is an inappropriate and disgusting comment especially in the light
of this tragedy.


Welcome to usenet!

I agree, thanks for the reminder

"Cecil Chapman" wrote in message . net...
: Shoki, one of the three that were killed was one of my fellow CFI's at my
: FBO. While I only knew him in the day-to-day operations at our FBO, he was
: always one of the warmest and friendliest person you could hope to meet.
: The day he and his students died in that incredulously tragic crash I found
: myself trying to reconcile that I had just seen him earlier that day,
: walking by my desk in the CFI office area, smiling and waving as he always
: would as he went off to his flight instruction duties.
:

Thanks for the post, Cecil...