AOPA talking rubbish

On 2007-02-19, Chris wrote:
Perhaps those in Europe have better things to do than play with airplanes.
For those who do want to do so, it can be affordable.

There are better things to do than play with aeroplanes?

--
Yes, the Reply-To email address is valid.
Oolite-Linux: an Elite tribute: http://oolite-linux.berlios.de

Ron Rosenfeld schrieb:

Is there a need to tell such lies?
Do you guys believe it?

I suppose it is one reason why Europe, with a population more than two and
half times that of the United States, has a fraction of the GA activity.

Which gives you the answer: Yes, there are people who believe this rubbish.

Stefan wrote:

Ron Rosenfeld schrieb:

Is there a need to tell such lies?
Do you guys believe it?


I suppose it is one reason why Europe, with a population more than two
and
half times that of the United States, has a fraction of the GA activity.


Which gives you the answer: Yes, there are people who believe this rubbish.

I've yet to see any proof that it is rubbish.

Matt

In article ,
Matt Whiting wrote:

Stefan wrote:

Ron Rosenfeld schrieb:

Is there a need to tell such lies?
Do you guys believe it?


I suppose it is one reason why Europe, with a population more than two
and
half times that of the United States, has a fraction of the GA activity.


Which gives you the answer: Yes, there are people who believe this rubbish.

I've yet to see any proof that it is rubbish.

Matt

I'm not sure what is being referenced as "rubbish."

Is it the AOPA alarms?
Is it the European socialist attitude towards GA?
Is it the idea that some people are not paying their "fair share" (as
defined by those making the claims)?

On 2007-02-20, Orval Fairbairn wrote:
I'm not sure what is being referenced as "rubbish."

The AOPA article being exaggerated. My own situation is proof that the
AOPA article is a gross exaggeration. However, AOPA is quite right to
want to lobby *against* user fees. AOPA rails against the popular press
for writing distortions and half truths - they need to apply that
standard to themselves too!

Other than that, AOPA is quite right to lobby against insane user fees.

--
Yes, the Reply-To email address is valid.
Oolite-Linux: an Elite tribute: http://oolite-linux.berlios.de

Orval Fairbairn wrote:

In article ,
Matt Whiting wrote:


Stefan wrote:


Ron Rosenfeld schrieb:


Is there a need to tell such lies?
Do you guys believe it?


I suppose it is one reason why Europe, with a population more than two
and
half times that of the United States, has a fraction of the GA activity.


Which gives you the answer: Yes, there are people who believe this rubbish.

I've yet to see any proof that it is rubbish.

Matt


I'm not sure what is being referenced as "rubbish."

Is it the AOPA alarms?
Is it the European socialist attitude towards GA?
Is it the idea that some people are not paying their "fair share" (as
defined by those making the claims)?

I haven't read the a AOPA comments, but I think the gist of it is that
they claimed that GA was much less accessible in Europe than in the USA.
I personally believe this to be true, but admittedly haven't seen
anything even approximating data on this topic. I'd like to see the
percentages of the population in a few European countries that are GA
pilots and aircraft owners vs. the US. I haven't had time to search
much yet, but thought some of the folks who live in Europe and who were
claiming that the AOPA assertion was rubbish would step up with some data.


Matt

On 2007-02-19, Ron Rosenfeld wrote:
I suppose it is one reason why Europe, with a population more than two and
half times that of the United States, has a fraction of the GA activity.
--ron

Europe isn't nearly as homogenous as the United States in terms of
wealth. Europe (just the European Union) includes countries like Romania
and Bulgaria where just owning a *car* is a struggle - these countries
are still recovering from decades of Soviet rule and have economies
which are in a desperate condition even compared to France (let alone
the United States). If you look at Europe in a wider context than just
the EU, you end up with countries like Albania with a GDP per capita of
$5600 (compared with the GDP per capita of the United States which is
$43500 - almost 10 times higher).

You can't really think of Europe in the same terms as the fifty states
of the US. Europe is pretty disparate in both wealth and culture. It's
not like an equivalent of the US where they speak funny languages.

Even if GA in Europe had no regulation whatsoever, there would be a lot
less GA activity in Europe than in the United States.

There is some good news though - the head of EASA has said he wants to
reduce the regulatory burden on GA and see it as 'healthy as it is in
the United States'. It remains to be seen whether they will actually
implement it, but over the last 18 months they have been making the
right noises. They even listened to and accepted the responses from GA
pilots over the Single European Sky which shocked the hell out of me.

--
Yes, the Reply-To email address is valid.
Oolite-Linux: an Elite tribute: http://oolite-linux.berlios.de

On Tue, 20 Feb 2007 10:11:29 -0000, Dylan Smith
wrote:

On 2007-02-19, Ron Rosenfeld wrote:
I suppose it is one reason why Europe, with a population more than two and
half times that of the United States, has a fraction of the GA activity.
--ron

Europe isn't nearly as homogenous as the United States in terms of
wealth. Europe (just the European Union) includes countries like Romania
and Bulgaria where just owning a *car* is a struggle - these countries
are still recovering from decades of Soviet rule and have economies
which are in a desperate condition even compared to France (let alone
the United States). If you look at Europe in a wider context than just
the EU, you end up with countries like Albania with a GDP per capita of
$5600 (compared with the GDP per capita of the United States which is
$43500 - almost 10 times higher).

That's very true. There are certainly areas of the US with similar
disadvantages. The inner cities and some rural areas come to mind.
Probably not as poor as Romania, though.

You can't really think of Europe in the same terms as the fifty states
of the US. Europe is pretty disparate in both wealth and culture. It's
not like an equivalent of the US where they speak funny languages.

Even if GA in Europe had no regulation whatsoever, there would be a lot
less GA activity in Europe than in the United States.

There is some good news though - the head of EASA has said he wants to
reduce the regulatory burden on GA and see it as 'healthy as it is in
the United States'. It remains to be seen whether they will actually
implement it, but over the last 18 months they have been making the
right noises. They even listened to and accepted the responses from GA
pilots over the Single European Sky which shocked the hell out of me.

That's good. My only experience with European flying is a bit of flying in
the Azores, in a Portugese registered a/c. It seemed it was more difficult
and expensive to obtain a temporary license. The flying privileges were
significantly more limited to what I have in the US. There was a lot more
control, but some of that was due to the flying club being based at Lajes
field, which is a large airport with shared military and commercial
control.
--ron

"Ron Rosenfeld" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 20 Feb 2007 10:11:29 -0000, Dylan Smith
wrote:

On 2007-02-19, Ron Rosenfeld wrote:
I suppose it is one reason why Europe, with a population more than two
and
half times that of the United States, has a fraction of the GA activity.
--ron

Europe isn't nearly as homogenous as the United States in terms of
wealth. Europe (just the European Union) includes countries like Romania
and Bulgaria where just owning a *car* is a struggle - these countries
are still recovering from decades of Soviet rule and have economies
which are in a desperate condition even compared to France (let alone
the United States). If you look at Europe in a wider context than just
the EU, you end up with countries like Albania with a GDP per capita of
$5600 (compared with the GDP per capita of the United States which is
$43500 - almost 10 times higher).

That's very true. There are certainly areas of the US with similar
disadvantages. The inner cities and some rural areas come to mind.
Probably not as poor as Romania, though.

You can't really think of Europe in the same terms as the fifty states
of the US. Europe is pretty disparate in both wealth and culture. It's
not like an equivalent of the US where they speak funny languages.

Even if GA in Europe had no regulation whatsoever, there would be a lot
less GA activity in Europe than in the United States.

There is some good news though - the head of EASA has said he wants to
reduce the regulatory burden on GA and see it as 'healthy as it is in
the United States'. It remains to be seen whether they will actually
implement it, but over the last 18 months they have been making the
right noises. They even listened to and accepted the responses from GA
pilots over the Single European Sky which shocked the hell out of me.

That's good. My only experience with European flying is a bit of flying
in
the Azores, in a Portugese registered a/c. It seemed it was more
difficult
and expensive to obtain a temporary license. The flying privileges were
significantly more limited to what I have in the US.

Well if you can to the UK you could use your FAA certificate and not worry
about a temporary certificate at all because its not needed. However in a G
reg you would be limited to day VFR only but in an N reg you would have full
privileges.

Now how easy is that.

On Wed, 21 Feb 2007 20:22:45 -0000, "Chris" wrote:

Well if you can to the UK you could use your FAA certificate and not worry
about a temporary certificate at all because its not needed. However in a G
reg you would be limited to day VFR only but in an N reg you would have full
privileges.

Now how easy is that.

Not very easy.

I have no reason to go to England. I have good reason to go to the Azores,
and do so frequently. There are no N-registered a/c available to me there
-- only Portugese registered.
--ron