Cessna buyers in So. Cal. beware !

Juan Jimenez wrote in message .. .
"Richard Kaplan" wrote in
s.com:


Why do you think this airplane is "super low priced"?

Why would it be priced that low if it were airworthy?

What does the price of a plane have to do with its airworthiness? When did
the FAA include price of the airplane in its definition of airworthiness?

What FAR requires a plane to be Airworthy to sell? Sounds like the
owner was willing to sell a project plane cheaply. The fact that he
wasn't upfront about it is annoying, but sadly, the norm. When I was
looking at Champs 4 out of 5 were not technically airworthy according
to ADs. That doesn't make them illegal to sell, or a bad deal.

-Robert

(Robert M. Gary) wrote in
om:

Juan Jimenez wrote in message
.. .
"Richard Kaplan" wrote in
s.com:


Why do you think this airplane is "super low priced"?

Why would it be priced that low if it were airworthy?

What does the price of a plane have to do with its airworthiness?
When did the FAA include price of the airplane in its definition of
airworthiness?

What FAR requires a plane to be Airworthy to sell? Sounds like the
owner was willing to sell a project plane cheaply. The fact that he
wasn't upfront about it is annoying, but sadly, the norm. When I was
looking at Champs 4 out of 5 were not technically airworthy according
to ADs. That doesn't make them illegal to sell, or a bad deal.

-Robert

The original poster never implied the effort to sell the a/c was illegal.
Whether or not something is a bad deal is up to the seller and buyer to
decide. What he did warn people about was that the one seller he met was
particularly egregious in his attempts to misrepresent the aircraft.
Apparently there are a few people around here over whose heads this all
went...

"Juan Jimenez" wrote in message
...
(Robert M. Gary) wrote in

What does the price of a plane have to do with its airworthiness?
When did the FAA include price of the airplane in its definition of
airworthiness?

What FAR requires a plane to be Airworthy to sell? Sounds like the
owner was willing to sell a project plane cheaply. The fact that he
wasn't upfront about it is annoying, but sadly, the norm. When I was
looking at Champs 4 out of 5 were not technically airworthy according
to ADs. That doesn't make them illegal to sell, or a bad deal.

-Robert

The original poster never implied the effort to sell the a/c was illegal.

Whether or not something is a bad deal is up to the seller and buyer to
decide.

And how would they determine that?

What he did warn people about was that the one seller he met was
particularly egregious in his attempts to misrepresent the aircraft.

How did he "misrepresent" it?

Apparently there are a few people around here over whose heads this all
went...

Yours.

"Robert M. Gary" wrote in message
om...
Juan Jimenez wrote in message
.. .
"Richard Kaplan" wrote in
s.com:


Why do you think this airplane is "super low priced"?

Why would it be priced that low if it were airworthy?

What does the price of a plane have to do with its airworthiness? When
did
the FAA include price of the airplane in its definition of
airworthiness?

What FAR requires a plane to be Airworthy to sell? Sounds like the
owner was willing to sell a project plane cheaply. The fact that he
wasn't upfront about it is annoying, but sadly, the norm. When I was
looking at Champs 4 out of 5 were not technically airworthy according
to ADs. That doesn't make them illegal to sell, or a bad deal.

He must not have ever heard of "parting out", "fixer upper"...

"Robert M. Gary" wrote in message
om...
Juan Jimenez wrote in message
.. .
"Richard Kaplan" wrote in
s.com:


Why do you think this airplane is "super low priced"?

Why would it be priced that low if it were airworthy?

What does the price of a plane have to do with its airworthiness? When
did
the FAA include price of the airplane in its definition of
airworthiness?

What FAR requires a plane to be Airworthy to sell? Sounds like the
owner was willing to sell a project plane cheaply. The fact that he
wasn't upfront about it is annoying, but sadly, the norm. When I was
looking at Champs 4 out of 5 were not technically airworthy according
to ADs. That doesn't make them illegal to sell, or a bad deal.

-Robert

If you look hard enough 10 out of 10 airplanes are unairworthy. Nowhere did
the buyer justify his claim the plane was not airworthy. His post sounded
to me like he seriously failed in his questioning before looking at the
plane then tried to blame the seller for his poor questioning. His
assumptions were based on what he thought he heard and wanted to hear not on
what the seller said. Jim Weir hit the nail squarely on the head on this
one.

"Dave Stadt" wrote in message
gy.com...

If you look hard enough 10 out of 10 airplanes are unairworthy. Nowhere
did
the buyer justify his claim the plane was not airworthy. His post sounded
to me like he seriously failed in his questioning before looking at the
plane then tried to blame the seller for his poor questioning. His
assumptions were based on what he thought he heard and wanted to hear not
on
what the seller said. Jim Weir hit the nail squarely on the head on this
one.

Yup...Caveat Emptor.

Likewise a car need not be roadworthy, or a building be inhabitable...and
it's the buyers responsibility to find out.

"Dave Stadt" wrote in
gy.com:

If you look hard enough 10 out of 10 airplanes are unairworthy.
Nowhere did the buyer justify his claim the plane was not airworthy.
His post sounded to me like he seriously failed in his questioning
before looking at the plane then tried to blame the seller for his
poor questioning. His assumptions were based on what he thought he
heard and wanted to hear not on what the seller said. Jim Weir hit
the nail squarely on the head on this one.

Weir wasn't even in the building, let alone close to the nail.

Robert M. Gary wrote:

The fact that he
wasn't upfront about it is annoying, but sadly, the norm. When I was
looking at Champs 4 out of 5 were not technically airworthy according
to ADs. That doesn't make them illegal to sell, or a bad deal.


The fact that when the OP put out an alert warning people looking for
Cessnas in So Cal to look for these things the seller blew a gasket
tells me that the seller had every intention of keeping the major damage
history and signficant squawks a secret. After all, he may not
spontaneously give the info out, but why should he be mad and
threatening to sue when someone reminds buyers to look for this stuff?

I found the ad (link posted elsewhere on the thread), it was a $25K C175
which I agree should have been a red flag. But at a club member who is
contemplating buying, after reading this thread and seeing IMO the
shockingly high number of people who think the seller's behavior is
acceptable, I think that's a good indication that I better stay away
from buying planes any time in the near future.

(Bill Berle) wrote in message . com...
I was looking for a super low priced 4 seat Cessna, and found an
advertisement for one on a very popular aviation classifieds site (a
fantastic website which is also based at the same airport as this
aircraft).... I asked what I thought were most
or all of the right questions on the phone and in e-mails.
...
Finally, you decided that I didn't deserve to know that the whole
airplane
was windstorm-flipped out of the tiedown RECENTLY and an entire wing
was
replaced, nosegear mounts, and other parts. Any potential buyer would
have
wanted to know that kind of thing before they traveled any distance or
burned up a very rare day off of work. Wings get replaced all the
time, and
if it's done right it's not a problem. But you OWE a potential buyer
that
information before they make arrangements to drive 250 miles round
trip.

I don't mean to pick here, but I am curious.

Did you specifically ask about accidents or major damage hx? If
so, I agree, an honest seller owes you an honest answer.

If not, do you feel the seller "owes" it to potential buyers to
spontaneously give negative info over the phone? If so, why?

Better luck with the next plane you look at,
Sydney