Tire inflation with Nitrogen or ?

Scott wrote:
So, all jokes aside, what is the reasoning of using Nitrogen? Something
to do with no oxidizing because of lack of O2??? I get many years out
of a set of baloney skins and the tread wears off before they rot out,
so it seems like it would just be added expense. Plus, I believe a tank
of Nitrogen would last 100 lifetimes if all you used it for was to fill
airplane tires.

Scott


Nitrogen has other uses. Since it won't hold water I have used it to
dry out electrical connectors, get rid of the itch inside a cast, fill a
solar panel etc.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

Dan wrote:
Scott wrote:
So, all jokes aside, what is the reasoning of using Nitrogen?
Something to do with no oxidizing because of lack of O2??? I get many
years out of a set of baloney skins and the tread wears off before
they rot out, so it seems like it would just be added expense. Plus,
I believe a tank of Nitrogen would last 100 lifetimes if all you used
it for was to fill airplane tires.

Scott


Nitrogen has other uses. Since it won't hold water I have used it to
dry out electrical connectors, get rid of the itch inside a cast, fill a
solar panel etc.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired


I filled my tires with propane---C3-H8 (or something like that)pretty
big molecule--shouldn't leak very fast & since I was running my cars on
propane ,with a quick fitting air hose & chuck--refilling was never a
problem.

Besides the flammability issue, a problem with propane, or "God's gas"
as Hank Hill calls it, is that it has a very low vapor pressure. Since
it turns to liquid under low pressure, the steel on the BBQ tank can be
very thin unlike a nitrogen tank. If you did fill tires with it, they
would primarily be filled with liquid.


Jerry Wass wrote:


I filled my tires with propane---C3-H8 (or something like that)pretty
big molecule--shouldn't leak very fast & since I was running my cars on
propane ,with a quick fitting air hose & chuck--refilling was never a
problem.

"Paul Dow (Remove Caps in mail address)" wrote in
message ...
Besides the flammability issue, a problem with propane, or "God's gas" as Hank
Hill calls it, is that it has a very low vapor pressure. Since it turns to
liquid under low pressure, the steel on the BBQ tank can be very thin unlike a
nitrogen tank. If you did fill tires with it, they would primarily be filled
with liquid.

You could indeed have a problem below zero temperatures, but at normal room
temperatures the propane would remain a gas. See the right side of this
diagram: http://www.elyenergy.com/pdf/CO26.pdf

Vaughn

Besides the flammability issue, a problem with propane, or "God's gas"
as Hank
Hill calls it, is that it has a very low vapor pressure. Since it turns
to
liquid under low pressure, the steel on the BBQ tank can be very thin
unlike a
nitrogen tank. If you did fill tires with it, they would primarily be
filled
with liquid.

You could indeed have a problem below zero temperatures, but at
normal room
temperatures the propane would remain a gas. See the right side of this
diagram: http://www.elyenergy.com/pdf/CO26.pdf

Vaughn


That's a very interesting chart. It definitely shows why some gasses could
prove to be a really bad choice...

Peter

On 11 Apr 2007 09:59:15 -0700, wrote:

Michelin recomends inflating tires with nitrogen. What about Argon? I
got a bottle of argon I use in Mig welding aluminum. Isn't argon
better than Nitrogen? What about the common 75% Argon and 25% CO2
welding mixture?

Most likely the reason for Nitrogen is two fold. It's a large
molecule so leaks slower than most other gases and it's *relatively*
inert compared to Oxygen. It's also quite dry compared to air from a
compressor. Compared to other "tank" gasses it's inexpensive.

The Argon/CO2 mix would also work as the O2 is already bonded to
carbon, but in aviation...is it permissible. Any "inert" gas should
work fine, but they may be expensive and I'm not sure about expansion
with temperature.

With the new tires and low leak tubes (I have nearly a year on the
mains since I last filled them) I see no real reason for not using
compressed air except for the manufacturers recommendations.
Air dryers are quite common in many shops where the air is used for
spray painting. (water makes for "fish eyes") so moisture isn't a
problem with "that " air. Air from a small compressor would be
different. I'd guess I get between a half to full pint when I blow
down my 80 gallon tank in the shop.

With the older "natural rubber" tubes, both water and O2 cause
deterioration albeit, slowly and are not normally a big problem as far
as I've seen.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

Michelin recomends inflating tires with nitrogen. What about Argon? I
got a bottle of argon I use in Mig welding aluminum. Isn't argon
better than Nitrogen? What about the common 75% Argon and 25% CO2
welding mixture?

Most likely the reason for Nitrogen is two fold. It's a large
molecule so leaks slower than most other gases and it's *relatively*
inert compared to Oxygen. It's also quite dry compared to air from a
compressor. Compared to other "tank" gasses it's inexpensive.

The Argon/CO2 mix would also work as the O2 is already bonded to
carbon, but in aviation...is it permissible. Any "inert" gas should
work fine, but they may be expensive and I'm not sure about expansion
with temperature.

--------some snipped------------

The OP stated that he has pure Argon for Aluminum welding.

Presuming that it is acceptable for his tires, the couple of cubic feet of
Argon per year would save the additional effort, space and expense of
maintaining an additional tank and regulator.

It makes sense to be; but I admit that I already have too much "stuff" for
my available space.

Peter

At work I run a large front end loader. About a year ago the company
switched from air filled to nitrogen filled at the recommendation of
the tire supplier. Used to be at the end of an 8 hour shift the tires
would be hot to touch or too hot to touch. Now they're just pleasantly
warm. Good for leaning on while waiting for a ride. I don't know if
argon would be any good or not.

Peter Dohm wrote:

snip

It makes sense to be; but I admit that I already have too much "stuff" for
my available space.

Peter


You worded that wrong. It should be : my available space isn't enough
for my stuff Time to expand into the living room.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

"GeorgeB" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 11 Apr 2007 20:16:53 -0400, "Kyle Boatright"
wrote:

clare at snyder.on.ca wrote in message
. ..

And ordinary compressed air is already 80% nitrogen.
But the oxygen and ozone, along with a few other gasses does
accellerate the deterioration of the rubber, and the nitrogen stays in
better than the rest (co2 included) Also more temperature stable,
pressure-wize.

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

I'm not 100% sure what Clare means by "more temperature stable, pressure
wise.", but all gasses follow Boyle's law, which is Pressure x Volume =
Number of moles x Avogadro's number x Temperature... PV=NRT. Essentially,
for a given temperature increase, all gasses expand (or increase pressure,
given a fixed volume) at the same ratio.

KB

Kyle, those of us in hydraulics would really like to buy some of your
ideal gas ... our accumulators would work SO much better. GRIN

My wife will tell you that my gas is far from ideal... ;-)

snip

George

KB