A380 captain's pay

On May 25, 7:25 pm, Dave wrote:
Maybe Bertie..

But, by whatever means, he is correct....

Major prob for companies "outsourcing offshore " at this time...

Works both ways. I actually have a job offer in hand as we speak for a
6 figure job working near Sacramento for an Indian company. Those damn
Americans keep taking all the Indian jobs! I still haven't decided
if I'll take it but I've already begun dumping stock options in my
current company so I guess that says something.

-Robert

Robert M. Gary writes:

Sadly I do have experience with employees in France.

France is not a Third-World outsourcing country. There isn't really any
advantage to hiring anyone in Western Europe, but France is one of the worst
choices.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

On May 25, 8:50 pm, "Robert M. Gary" wrote:
On May 25, 4:08 pm, wrote:





On May 25, 4:34 pm, "Robert M. Gary" wrote:

On May 25, 3:17 pm, (Paul Tomblin) wrote:

In a previous article, Mxsmanic said:

Robert M. Gary writes:
Where can I get a software engineer in the US for 75K?? I've been
trying to grow my U.S. team for quiet some time but even six figure
saleries don't generate a lot of response.

Are these telecommuting positions?

The problem with "telecommuting positions" is that if they want
telecommuters, they want Indian, Chinese, or Eastern European
telecommuters, or people willing to work for those types of wages.

The cost is actually a very small factor in overseas hiring in the
software industry. Our two main motivating factors are 1) we want a
large pool to hire from, in the U.S. right now its very much an
employees market, its hard for employeers to find "good" (not the high
school kids that were hired during the internet bubble, real engineers
with real engineering degrees) programmers to pick from and 2) Since a
large amount of sales come from overseas its hard to explain to a
foreign country or company why they should buy your product if you
don't spend any money in their country (i.e. "why should I buy your
product if you won't hire anyone from my country")? Its the same
reason Boeing subs out the 777 all over the world, those country are
customers too.
BTW: The cost savings in India for programmers is all but totally
gone. China will always have a small roll because of the extream
language difference. Eastern Europe is probably going to see a large
increase in technology hiring in the near term.

-Robert, BS Computer Science, MBA, holder of 3 U.S. patents for
software

Robert,

Let me guess... you are in a high-cost large city job market, right?

Probably middle tier. We're near Sacramento.

I am an Electrical Engineer with 20 years of design experience in both
hardware and software, and in Idaho I make $80K a year,

Well, if you account for all the state taxes here (income, high sales,
$5000/yr average home property tax, sales/use tax on airplanes, etc)
you probably are making a California equiv of $100K.

Plus, HP has been
laying off so many people in Boise that there are lots of folks in the
market for an engineering position.

Yea, HP is now where you want to be, especially if you are in a one
employeer town. However, the best money has always been at smaller,
riskier companies. You always take a salery cut to work at a more
"stable" company like IBM, HP, etc.

-robert- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Robert,

I don't work for HP anymore, I work for a small privately owned
company... HP is continuing to cut people here locally as they send
the R&D to Shanghai and Singapore. Not much future at HP in the USA.

Dean

In a previous article, "Robert M. Gary" said:
The cost is actually a very small factor in overseas hiring in the
software industry. Our two main motivating factors are 1) we want a
large pool to hire from, in the U.S. right now its very much an
employees market, its hard for employeers to find "good" (not the high
school kids that were hired during the internet bubble, real engineers
with real engineering degrees) programmers to pick from and 2) Since a

Bull****. At least 50 percent of the programmers I know are not working
as programmers because their employers fired them and replaced them with
off-shore workers. There are plenty of very good programmers here in the
US who can't get work because employers don't want to pay a living wage.

I told my kids not to bother getting engineering degrees because in a few
years there won't be a single job left in the US.

--
Paul Tomblin http://blog.xcski.com/
"Harry very carefully read the manual - four times - because Snape would
cut off his breathing privs if he asked him a question that the manual
could answer..." -- Harry Potter and the Book Of The BOFH

"Paul Tomblin" wrote in message ...
In a previous article, "Robert M. Gary" said:
The cost is actually a very small factor in overseas hiring in the
software industry. Our two main motivating factors are 1) we want a
large pool to hire from, in the U.S. right now its very much an
employees market, its hard for employeers to find "good" (not the high
school kids that were hired during the internet bubble, real engineers
with real engineering degrees) programmers to pick from and 2) Since a

Bull****. At least 50 percent of the programmers I know are not working
as programmers because their employers fired them and replaced them with
off-shore workers. There are plenty of very good programmers here in the
US who can't get work because employers don't want to pay a living wage.

I told my kids not to bother getting engineering degrees because in a few
years there won't be a single job left in the US.

--
Paul Tomblin http://blog.xcski.com/
"Harry very carefully read the manual - four times - because Snape would
cut off his breathing privs if he asked him a question that the manual
could answer..." -- Harry Potter and the Book Of The BOFH

That is part of the problem. Exactly how many years is 'a few?' Not even one single job left?

If you want things to change, change them! It seems like so many in gov't and media want to continue to divide and
conquer us. Send the kids to college, let them be engineers, and they have a very good chance that they will create
something new. The key is american creativity giving us the edge...

In article .com,
"Robert M. Gary" wrote:

Well, if you account for all the state taxes here (income, high sales,
$5000/yr average home property tax, sales/use tax on airplanes, etc)
you probably are making a California equiv of $100K.

That description sounds just like Ohio.

In article ,
(Paul Tomblin) wrote:

Bull****. At least 50 percent of the programmers I know are not working
as programmers because their employers fired them and replaced them with
off-shore workers. There are plenty of very good programmers here in the
US who can't get work because employers don't want to pay a living wage.

Ah, the sticky wicket!
Who gets to define the term "a living wage"?

writes:

On May 25, 8:50 pm, "Robert M. Gary" wrote:
On May 25, 4:08 pm, wrote:





On May 25, 4:34 pm, "Robert M. Gary" wrote:

On May 25, 3:17 pm, (Paul Tomblin) wrote:

In a previous article, Mxsmanic said:

Robert M. Gary writes:
Where can I get a software engineer in the US for 75K?? I've been
trying to grow my U.S. team for quiet some time but even six figure
saleries don't generate a lot of response.

Are these telecommuting positions?

The problem with "telecommuting positions" is that if they want
telecommuters, they want Indian, Chinese, or Eastern European
telecommuters, or people willing to work for those types of wages.

The cost is actually a very small factor in overseas hiring in the
software industry. Our two main motivating factors are 1) we want a
large pool to hire from, in the U.S. right now its very much an
employees market, its hard for employeers to find "good" (not the high
school kids that were hired during the internet bubble, real engineers
with real engineering degrees) programmers to pick from and 2) Since a
large amount of sales come from overseas its hard to explain to a
foreign country or company why they should buy your product if you
don't spend any money in their country (i.e. "why should I buy your
product if you won't hire anyone from my country")? Its the same
reason Boeing subs out the 777 all over the world, those country are
customers too.
BTW: The cost savings in India for programmers is all but totally
gone. China will always have a small roll because of the extream
language difference. Eastern Europe is probably going to see a large
increase in technology hiring in the near term.

-Robert, BS Computer Science, MBA, holder of 3 U.S. patents for
software

Robert,

Let me guess... you are in a high-cost large city job market, right?

Probably middle tier. We're near Sacramento.

I am an Electrical Engineer with 20 years of design experience in both
hardware and software, and in Idaho I make $80K a year,

Well, if you account for all the state taxes here (income, high sales,
$5000/yr average home property tax, sales/use tax on airplanes, etc)
you probably are making a California equiv of $100K.

Plus, HP has been
laying off so many people in Boise that there are lots of folks in the
market for an engineering position.

Yea, HP is now where you want to be, especially if you are in a one
employeer town. However, the best money has always been at smaller,
riskier companies. You always take a salery cut to work at a more
"stable" company like IBM, HP, etc.

-robert- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Robert,

I don't work for HP anymore, I work for a small privately owned
company... HP is continuing to cut people here locally as they send
the R&D to Shanghai and Singapore. Not much future at HP in the USA.

Dean

writes:

I don't work for HP anymore, I work for a small privately owned
company... HP is continuing to cut people here locally as they send
the R&D to Shanghai and Singapore. Not much future at HP in the USA.

Not much future for HP, actually.

Blueskies writes:

That is part of the problem. Exactly how many years is 'a few?'

Probably twenty years or so.

Not even one single job left?

There will always be a few jobs, but practically speaking there may not be
anything significant left. How many steelworking jobs are there in the United
States now?

If you want things to change, change them! It seems like so many in
gov't and media want to continue to divide and conquer us.

Most people find it easier to obey than to decide or lead. All democracies
evolve in this direction.

Send the kids to college, let them be engineers, and they have a
very good chance that they will create something new.

And if they are very good, they may even be able to emigrate to India and get
a good job.

The key is american creativity giving us the edge...

Americans don't have any kind of monopoly on creativity. In fact, they don't
have any more than anyone else does. They can accept this now and act in
consequence, or have the reality forced on them by circumstances in the
future.