How low can you go?

Clean Zipper - about 1+40 and 800 nautical is a good guess. Winds,
ATC, and pilot technique can change that but not by much. That's
normal flying - a max endurance profile would give you a little more
time aloft but it'd be a boring flight stooging along at max L/D,
especially the idle glide descending to your destination. ATC would
probably screw that up letting airliners go in front of you. BTW this
is observing USAF VFR min fuel - 20 minutes (800#)at destination.
Walt BJ

(Walt BJ) wrote:

Clean Zipper - about 1+40 and 800 nautical is a good guess. Winds,
ATC, and pilot technique can change that but not by much. That's
normal flying - a max endurance profile would give you a little more
time aloft but it'd be a boring flight stooging along at max L/D,
especially the idle glide descending to your destination. ATC would
probably screw that up letting airliners go in front of you. BTW this
is observing USAF VFR min fuel - 20 minutes (800#)at destination.
Walt BJ

Gracias. That's longer/furthur than I thought considering how slim
and sleek the airframe is and wet wings are obviously out of the
question. Where is the internal fuel tank located?

-Mike Marron

On Tue, 29 Jul 2003 04:52:15 GMT, "Steve R."
wrote:

I would be glad to accept that picture if you wanted to e-mail me a copy.
;o)


"Walt BJ" wrote in message
om...
snip
I also have a great picture of an F4 in full mil power - lots of black
smoke - rising up(!) towards the range tower - the platform of which
is 35 feet above the ground. He must have passed about one wingspan
from the tower. Prima-facie court-martial evidence in today's Air
Force . . .

And I have a copy slide of the number 1 Blue Angel F-4 making a
gear-up landing.

Mary

--
Mary Shafer Retired aerospace research engineer

On Tue, 29 Jul 2003 08:43:51 -0700, (Harry
Andreas) wrote:

I was on a backpacking trip in the high Sierras, doing a east to west
trans-sierra.
As we were hiking down the Kern River canyon, a 3000 foot canyon about 1/2
mile across, with roar and thunder, an F-4 went down the canyon below us.
We were about 1000 feet down, but the canyon is pretty narrow, so he was
just slightly below and pretty close to us.
I swear I was able to look right in the cockpit for a fraction of a second.
Ballsy move on his part.
For those not in SoCal, this is pretty close to the Lake (China Lake).

It could have been from Edwards AFB. When I got my F-4 ride, we went
up the canyon well below the top of it, albeit only to the edge of the
wilderness area. This was, apparently, a standard technique for the
USAF F-4 drivers.

It was pretty spiffy, I tell you.

Mary

--
Mary Shafer Retired aerospace research engineer

Oooh! That would be a good one too. Could I bother you for a e-mailed copy
Mary?
Thanks,
Steve R.

"Mary Shafer" wrote in message
...

And I have a copy slide of the number 1 Blue Angel F-4 making a
gear-up landing.

Mary

--
Mary Shafer Retired aerospace research engineer

All in the fuselage. The A model holds 5824 pounds, 754 gallons usable
fuel, in four interconnected cells. It is fueled 'over the wing'
through two ports. The auxiliary cell is forward, holds 143 gallons
and is burned first via a tranfer pump. This is for CG control. FWIW
this aux fuel does not show on the fuel quantity indicator. The
forward main cell (491 gal) and the aft cells (2x36 gal, 1x190 gal)
burn down equally. The aft center 190gal cell is between the engine
air inlet ducts. The aft right and left 36 gal cells fit around the
air inlet ducts outboard of the aft center cell. The four electric
boost pumps are in the forward main cell and feed the engine-driven
boost pump. The B model did not have the forward (aux) fuel cell and
was therefore short on fuel and so we normally carried tip tanks (or
2xAIM9 plus pylon tanks) on it. There is an option in the G model and
I think the CF104 for a 122 gallon cell in the gun bay. Further info =
pylon tank usable fuel 195 each; tiptanks usable fuel 170 each. FWIW
filling with JP5, due to greater density, gave 6050 internal fuel,
about 4% more. Also FWIW a four tanked F104 could out range a
three-tank F4 considerably - 3:00 hours and 1500 miles practicable by
dropping externals as emptied, with another 300 miles at cruise
altitude to zero fuel remaining.
Walt BJ

I have a friend who swears that he has looked down on a RNZAF Skyhawk
flying over the flightdeck from the roof of the frigate's hanger.
(see msg id )


I had a flight with 2 Squadron out of Nowra in February 1993. Three
A-4Ks and "my" TA-4K spent an hour and a half attacking a combined
RAN/RNZN task group about 50 miles off the coast. The Kiwis fly at 50
feet, which is what the altimeter and the HUD repeater in the rear
cockpit said, too.

We had to go between the ships as we were too low to go over them.

Two RAAF Hornets were on the same mission, but were only cleared down to
250 feet. The Kiwi pilots told me the Aussies would get nosebleeds "way
up there". :-)

Jeff

At the October 1993 PhanCon at Birmingham, Alabama the unit put most of
its RF-4Cs up for a series of flypasts and several of them flew
individual passes along the runway with the hook down and dragging a
shower of sparks.

Jeff

Thanks James. That looks like one fun pass at first sight but re-runs
show
how close the pilot was to disaster. I guess the camera was on a
stand, if
I'd been holding you'd have seen a lot of grass!


You can see the shadow rise up towards the aircraft at one point, so the
ground wasn't as flat as it looks. I wonder how close his prop tips were
to the ground then.

It's definitely a "holy ****" pass, but it put a very valuable aircraft
at risk, as well as at least three lives, and if he'd crashed or even
"just" sliced the reporter and cameraman to red froth without crashing
the aircraft, it wouldn't have had a favourable effect on the continued
operation of warbirds.

Jeff

In article 6yMWa.4889$Fy1.227440@localhost,
sirius wrote:
Thanks James. That looks like one fun pass at first sight but re-runs
show
how close the pilot was to disaster. I guess the camera was on a
stand, if
I'd been holding you'd have seen a lot of grass!

It's definitely a "holy ****" pass, but it put a very valuable aircraft
at risk, as well as at least three lives, and if he'd crashed or even
"just" sliced the reporter and cameraman to red froth without crashing
the aircraft, it wouldn't have had a favourable effect on the continued
operation of warbirds.

One of the most spectacular low passes I've ever seen at an airshow was
25-30 odd years ago at Sunderland, when the RN historical flight Firefly
came in towards the airfield so low that it literally came up into view
as it climbed over the rise in the field. Spectacular, and very well done
by very professional people.

Picked up this month's Aeroplane Montly yesaterday to read that the same
Firefly went in at Duxford on the 12th last month, killing both crew. It
doesn't seem to have been the result of going especially low (apart,
obviously, from right at the end), but it doesn't half make one think.

--
Andy Breen ~ Interplanetary Scintillation Research Group
http://users.aber.ac.uk/azb/
Feng Shui: an ancient oriental art for extracting
money from the gullible (Martin Sinclair)