AF Academy finished

"Paul J. Adam" wrote:

Where will you recruit them from, since you're legally forbidden to have
female infantry?

My point exactly!

-Mike Marron

Hi Joey

Thanks for your forthright honesty.

Cheers...Chris

"Jim Baker" wrote:
"Mike Marron" wrote:

All true, but not everyone who resists the progress of bringing women
in a warrior ethic are "neanderthals." I'm all for women being trained
to fly high tech equipment in combat...as long as they're also being
trained to fight alongside the men on the ground (as go-gettum
warriors -- not merely support personnel like Jessica Lynch). It takes
three times longer to train a SEAL or special forces operative as it
does a fighter pilot but we don't see any women SEALS, Rangers,
Delta Force, etc. The only reason the USAF and USN are training
women to fly airplanes is simply because flying an F-18 or A-10
doesn't require the physical attributes required to be an effective
warrior on the ground. They can't legislate physical strength (they
can only bitch to God for creating men and women unequal in the
strength department) but for political purposes they CAN train women
as pilots.

As I read it, this post just doesn't pass any common sense filter. Are you
saying that women shouldn't be allowed by the government to do a job they've
proven they're capable of doing because they've proven they're not
physically capable of doing a different, totally unrelated job?

I've read your post three times and I think that's what you're saying. If
I'm wrong, nevermind. If I'm right, your post is nonsensical/illogical.

No, what's nonsensical/illogical is the notion that women should
have it both ways. If a tiny nation such as Israel which is constantly
fighting to protect itself, doesn't use women in combat, the only
reason the U.S. has women filling combat positions in airplanes is
to fulfill equal opportunity mandates as prescribed by politicians.

-Mike Marron

Subject: AF Academy finished
From: Mike Marron OSPAM
Date: 8/31/03 4:02 PM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id:

(ArtKramr) wrote:
Mike Marron wrote:

No, what's nonsensical/illogical is the notion that women should
have it both ways. If a tiny nation such as Israel which is constantly
fighting to protect itself, doesn't use women in combat, the only
reason the U.S. has women filling combat positions in airplanes is
to fulfill equal opportunity mandates as prescribed by politicians.

Then there was that memorable morning at Stansted. We were socked in.
Mission
cancelled. Ceiling not zero, but damned near zero. Suddenly we heard the
unmistakeable sound of twin R-2800's overhead, Men rushed out to light the
firepots to burn off some of the fog. Then we saw it, A B-26 on final
coming
in down and dirty, smooth as glass. It kissed the runway with hardly a
squeal
and braked to a stop. Out climbed a slip of a girl, a WAAF ferry pilot
delivering a replacement B-26 to us. She had more hours than most of our
pilots. And she was amazing.

So, what's your point? That women are fine aviators? Ancient news.

Don't ever tell me women can't fly

Huh? I've trained women pilots to fly, have YOU?

or give me that "political" crap.

Is that the best argument for women in combat you can come up with?

The question now is will you ever be half the pilot she
was?

C'mon down to Tampa and I'd be more than happy to take you up...

-Mike (might wanna bring along an extra pair of underwear) Marron



Bragging again?. (sigh)


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...
Subject: AF Academy finished
From: "Vaughn"
Date: 8/30/03 3:15 PM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id:


"Joey Bishop" wrote in message
. ..
"Seven 20- and 21-year-old cadets were ticketed by police for drinking
alcohol in an off-campus hotel room early Saturday with two young
women, aged 16 and 18. "

Horrors! College kids actually drinking and pairing off with the
opposite sex? What is this world coming to?

As far as I'm concerned, the AF Academy has failed it's mission, and
the
tax dollars should be shifted to the Army and Naval Academies. There
is
no reason for it's further existence.

Bull****. Do you really think that there is no drinking and whoring
going on at the Army and Navy Academies?

Vaughn (an ex-Navy guy)






Then there was Tailhook. How soon they forget.

Arthur Kramer


I generally support you here Art, but Tailhook came with major
repercussions.
Navy Air will never be what it was before that (some good, some bad). The
current AF Academy situation also calls for major repercussions, not the
token
responses seen to date. Leadership has clearly failed.

Giz

"Mike Marron" wrote in message
...
"Jim Baker" wrote:
"Mike Marron" wrote:

All true, but not everyone who resists the progress of bringing women
in a warrior ethic are "neanderthals." I'm all for women being trained
to fly high tech equipment in combat...as long as they're also being
trained to fight alongside the men on the ground (as go-gettum
warriors -- not merely support personnel like Jessica Lynch). It takes
three times longer to train a SEAL or special forces operative as it
does a fighter pilot but we don't see any women SEALS, Rangers,
Delta Force, etc. The only reason the USAF and USN are training
women to fly airplanes is simply because flying an F-18 or A-10
doesn't require the physical attributes required to be an effective
warrior on the ground. They can't legislate physical strength (they
can only bitch to God for creating men and women unequal in the
strength department) but for political purposes they CAN train women
as pilots.

As I read it, this post just doesn't pass any common sense filter. Are
you
saying that women shouldn't be allowed by the government to do a job
they've
proven they're capable of doing because they've proven they're not
physically capable of doing a different, totally unrelated job?

I've read your post three times and I think that's what you're saying.
If
I'm wrong, nevermind. If I'm right, your post is nonsensical/illogical.

No, what's nonsensical/illogical is the notion that women should
have it both ways. If a tiny nation such as Israel which is constantly
fighting to protect itself, doesn't use women in combat, the only
reason the U.S. has women filling combat positions in airplanes is
to fulfill equal opportunity mandates as prescribed by politicians.

-Mike Marron

This is a silly sub-thread. What you're saying is women are choosing to
only be pilots and not combat arms soldiers. Nothing could be further from
the truth since they aren't allowed to apply to certain combat specialties
by law. Your insistence that they're having it both ways by their own
choosing just doesn't make sense because it's incorrect on the face of it.
Let's drop it.

JB

"Gooneybird" wrote in message
...
Vaughn wrote:
"Joey Bishop" wrote in message
.. .
"Seven 20- and 21-year-old cadets were ticketed by police for drinking
alcohol in an off-campus hotel room early Saturday with two young
women, aged 16 and 18. "

Horrors! College kids actually drinking and pairing off with the
opposite sex? What is this world coming to?

As far as I'm concerned, the AF Academy has failed it's mission, and
the
tax dollars should be shifted to the Army and Naval Academies. There
is
no reason for it's further existence.

Bull****. Do you really think that there is no drinking and
whoring
going on at the Army and Navy Academies?

That may be, but one might reasonably wonder why any of them thought they
were
ordinary college boys and able to do the boozing and whoring that ordinary
college boys do. In any case, whatever the academy, they need to be shown
the
door on the basis of their display of conduct unbecoming of an officer,
etc.,
which I think is part of Art. 134 of the UCMJ. They're supposed to be
different
from and better than the ordinary and, if they aren't, they never will be
missed.

George Z.

Outstanding post. I'm a Naval Aircrewman with 20 years mixed service. I
may
find myself flying with one of these grads at some point. The Service
Academy's
obligation to me is to ensure that I get the best they can produce. If they
aren't
the best get rid of them, I don't want them. If the leadership can't do
that, then
get rid of the leadership, for they have surely forgotten their duty.

Giz

Subject: AF Academy finished
From: "C Lee"
Date: 8/31/03 4:16 PM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id:


"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...
Subject: AF Academy finished
From: "Vaughn"
Date: 8/30/03 3:15 PM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id:


"Joey Bishop" wrote in message
. ..
"Seven 20- and 21-year-old cadets were ticketed by police for drinking
alcohol in an off-campus hotel room early Saturday with two young
women, aged 16 and 18. "

Horrors! College kids actually drinking and pairing off with the
opposite sex? What is this world coming to?

As far as I'm concerned, the AF Academy has failed it's mission, and
the
tax dollars should be shifted to the Army and Naval Academies. There
is
no reason for it's further existence.

Bull****. Do you really think that there is no drinking and whoring
going on at the Army and Navy Academies?

Vaughn (an ex-Navy guy)






Then there was Tailhook. How soon they forget.

Arthur Kramer


I generally support you here Art, but Tailhook came with major
repercussions.
Navy Air will never be what it was before that (some good, some bad). The
current AF Academy situation also calls for major repercussions, not the
token
responses seen to date. Leadership has clearly failed.

Giz


I agree. I think that since this is now exposed the problem will be solved in
short order.


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

(ArtKramr) wrote:

Bragging again?. (sigh)

Pot.Kettle.Black again? So, does this mean you aren't coming down?
I guarantee you would have a great time and would return home
as a less bitter, angry old man. Since you have this raging mad-on
for me for some reason but you're afraid to fly, C'mon down anyway
and we'll go have a drink and arm wrestle or something...

-Mike (you might even meet a bikini on the beach and get laid!) Marron

(ArtKramr) wrote:
Mike Marron OSPAM wrote:

Pot.Kettle.Black again? So, does this mean you aren't coming down?
I guarantee you would have a great time and would return home
as a less bitter, angry old man. Since you have this raging mad-on
for me for some reason but you're afraid to fly, C'mon down anyway
and we'll go have a drink and arm wrestle or something...

-Mike (you might even meet a bikini on the beach and get laid!) Marron

You re a class act aren't you? (sheesh)

By your standards, Snoop Doggy Dog is a "class act!" Here is
your twisted concept of "class act": (1) telling everybody you were
brave every single post, and offering very little else about anything
except to call people names like "wannabe" for simply disagreeing
with your self-centered point of views (2) being pitiably obtuse; and
(3) heroically working to offset the image of your generation who
humbly served our country without constantly demanding praise and
recognition like you are forever doing. It's not respect you want,
you simply want people to kiss your ass. Sorry pal, but that just
ain't gonna' happen. You take yourself way too seriously and
I'm not sure if what you need is a good piece of ass or a good ass
whipping!

-Mike Marron