Aircrew casualities

Mike Marron wrote:

"Erik Plagen" wrote:
Mike Marron wrote:

Haven't you heard all the stories of the Luftwaffe strafing downed
allied pilots coming down their chutes

That;s all they were- "stories" or fairy tales!

We never tried to shoot down Crew Members in their chutes!

You are thinking of the Japanese.

Nope, I'm thinking of the Germans. In fact, I've heard Chuck Yeager
himself during an interview describe how the Germans were known
to strafe downed allied airmen descending in their chutes.

snip

There were certainly instances (on both sides) of this happening, and it
was widely believed (again, by both sides) that the other side was just
looking for opportunities to do so, but it was an individual thing, not an
order. It tended to be crews with better reasons to hate, i.e. a pilot
whose family had been killed by bombing, or pilots of some of the occupied
countries (the Poles come to mind). And there were the occasional
bloodthirsty or just plain ruthless types on both sides. There was little
reason for the Germans to strafe parachutes when they were on the
defensive, because the crews were almost certain to be captured. There
was more reason for the allies to do so when they were on the offensive,
because any German pilot who survived was likely to be back in the air;
most of the top German aces were shot down numerous times. The situation
was the reverse in the BoB, where it would have made sense for the Germans
to shoot British pilots as they descended, but was pointless for the
British. There seems to have been one exception: in the case of the
Me-262, US fighter pilots were ordered to kill the pilots, in their chutes
or on the ground, according to Yeager and/or Clarence 'Bud' Anderson in
their biographies.

Guy

Subject: Aircrew casualities
From: Guy Alcala
Date: 9/18/03 11:53 AM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id:

No, I meant the fighters taking evasive action on the run-in, and preparing
to do

Never saw that once. Thyey would drop tgheior inside wing and their nose would
swing in toward us and we hten knew they had started their classic fighter
approach. And once they set up constant bearing, they never swerved, changed
course or took evasive action at all. They just bore in on their heading of
constant bearing firing as they came.

The USAAF bomber crew didn't have backpack parachutes either for quite a
while (it
seems to have been late in 1943 that they started to come in). Normally it
was a

The USAAF bomber crew didn't have backpack parachutes either for quite a
while (it
seems to have been late in 1943 that they started to come in). Normally it
was a

I wore a chestpack. The tail gunner and the top turrest gunners also had
chestpacks and we wore them in our positions with no problem. We never ever
flew missions with chutes off. And in 1943 both our pilot and copilot flew with
backpacks, the rest of us wore chestpacks and once in the air never took them
of except when I had to enter the bomb bays. I couldn't fit through the bombay
access door with a chestpack on.


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

In article ,
wrote:

chutes (in
That's another reason why ball turret
gunners
had such a high casualty rate; there was no room in the turret for them to
have
their chutes, so they had to first make it back up into the fuselage, get
their
chute and put it on before they could jump. The waist gunners had it far
easier.


Hmmm. From what I've been told statistically the ball was one of the more
survivable positions..regarless of what the silly History Channel "Suicide
Mission" show stated.

And if you think about it, it makes sense. The ball gunner has more steel
around him than say the waist gunner and he's in the fetal position making for a
smaller target, not standing upright like a waist gunner or top turret gunner
(some of which were on seats as in the B-26).

--
Dale L. Falk

There is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing
as simply messing around with airplanes.

http://home.gci.net/~sncdfalk/flying.html

Mike Marron wrote:


Aoccdrnig to rscheearch at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy,
it deosn't mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a
wrod are, the olny iprmoetnt tihng is taht the frist
and lsat ltteer be at the rghit pclae.

The rset can be a total mses and you can sitll
raed it wouthit a porbelm. Tihs is bcuseae the
huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef,
but the wrod as a wlohe.

-Mike (Fcuknig amzanig, huh?) Marron


It is!...I never came across that before!...quite amazing.
--

-Gord.

(ArtKramr) wrote:


I wore a chestpack. The tail gunner and the top turrest gunners also had
chestpacks and we wore them in our positions with no problem. We never ever
flew missions with chutes off. And in 1943 both our pilot and copilot flew with
backpacks, the rest of us wore chestpacks and once in the air never took them
of except when I had to enter the bomb bays. I couldn't fit through the bombay
access door with a chestpack on.


Arthur Kramer

Art, I remember three or four days ago you mentioned that your
escape route was through the bomb bay, here's what you said:

In the B-26 we had no escape hatch at all. The bombardier
had along path to creawl in front of the copilot then
out the bombay.

How did you work that?...or did I misunderstand something?.
--

-Gord.

Subject: Aircrew casualities
From: "Gord Beaman" )
Date: 9/18/03 1:31 PM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id:

(ArtKramr) wrote:


I wore a chestpack. The tail gunner and the top turrest gunners also had
chestpacks and we wore them in our positions with no problem. We never ever
flew missions with chutes off. And in 1943 both our pilot and copilot flew
with
backpacks, the rest of us wore chestpacks and once in the air never took
them
of except when I had to enter the bomb bays. I couldn't fit through the
bombay
access door with a chestpack on.


Arthur Kramer

Art, I remember three or four days ago you mentioned that your
escape route was through the bomb bay, here's what you said:

In the B-26 we had no escape hatch at all. The bombardier
had along path to creawl in front of the copilot then
out the bombay.

How did you work that?...or did I misunderstand something?.
--

-Gord.
Entering the bomb bay for two different purposes. When entering the bombay to
do repaireslike kicking out a hung up bomb, I wore no chute at all, Nervious
work with the bombay doors open. For bailout, unhook one side of the chest
pack, step out, rehook it and bail out.But where possible go out the nosewheel
well. It is a lot faster and a shorter trip. Luckily I never had to do either.


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

(ArtKramr) wrote:

Entering the bomb bay for two different purposes. When entering the bombay to
do repaireslike kicking out a hung up bomb, I wore no chute at all, Nervious
work with the bombay doors open. For bailout, unhook one side of the chest
pack, step out, rehook it and bail out.But where possible go out the nosewheel
well. It is a lot faster and a shorter trip. Luckily I never had to do either.


Arthur Kramer

I see...thank you.
--

-Gord.

Subject: Aircrew casualities
From: "Gord Beaman" )
Date: 9/18/03 6:10 PM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id:

(ArtKramr) wrote:

Entering the bomb bay for two different purposes. When entering the bombay
to
do repaireslike kicking out a hung up bomb, I wore no chute at all, Nervious
work with the bombay doors open. For bailout, unhook one side of the chest
pack, step out, rehook it and bail out.But where possible go out the
nosewheel
well. It is a lot faster and a shorter trip. Luckily I never had to do
either.


Arthur Kramer

I see...thank you.
--

-Gord.

One more point. With certain types of battle damage you may not be able to
lower the wheels so that last option may not be available.

Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

(ArtKramr) wrote:

Subject: Aircrew casualities
From: "Gord Beaman" )
Date: 9/18/03 6:10 PM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id:

(ArtKramr) wrote:

Entering the bomb bay for two different purposes. When entering the bombay
to
do repaireslike kicking out a hung up bomb, I wore no chute at all, Nervious
work with the bombay doors open. For bailout, unhook one side of the chest
pack, step out, rehook it and bail out.But where possible go out the
nosewheel
well. It is a lot faster and a shorter trip. Luckily I never had to do
either.


Arthur Kramer

I see...thank you.
--

-Gord.

One more point. With certain types of battle damage you may not be able to
lower the wheels so that last option may not be available.

Arthur Kramer

Of course and it likely goes without saying that if you cannot
open the BB then you can't use that route either.
--

-Gord.

Subject: Aircrew casualities
From: "Gord Beaman" )
Date: 9/18/03 6:46 PM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id:

(ArtKramr) wrote:

Subject: Aircrew casualities
From: "Gord Beaman" )
Date: 9/18/03 6:10 PM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id:

(ArtKramr) wrote:

Entering the bomb bay for two different purposes. When entering the bombay
to
do repaireslike kicking out a hung up bomb, I wore no chute at all,
Nervious
work with the bombay doors open. For bailout, unhook one side of the chest
pack, step out, rehook it and bail out.But where possible go out the
nosewheel
well. It is a lot faster and a shorter trip. Luckily I never had to do
either.


Arthur Kramer

I see...thank you.
--

-Gord.

One more point. With certain types of battle damage you may not be able to
lower the wheels so that last option may not be available.

Arthur Kramer

Of course and it likely goes without saying that if you cannot
open the BB then you can't use that route either.
--

-Gord.

There's always the waist windows or the cockp[it overheads..



Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer