Rudder waggle

Since the rudder waggle signal was brought up in another thread, I
have a few thoughts and would like to get other opinions. I am a
glider and tow pilot for my club, so I have thought these through from
both ends.

To start with, if the tow plane gives you a wave off signal, THERE IS
TIME TO THINK ABOUT IT ! If there was no time (30 sec or less to
disaster) the tow pilot will just pull their release. So any signal
that you get, you have enough time to carefully think. "What is that
signal; check spoilers or wave-off ?" Take 10 seconds and THINK !

On the tow-pilot side, assume that the glider pilot will most likely
release when you give the waggle, so don't waggle unless 1) you are
going to die soon, if the glider doesn't close the spoilers, or 2) the
glider is high enough and close enough to the airport to land with
full spoilers out.

If you have a radio, you could calmly call the glider and say "hey
glider, are your spoilers open ?" Don't say the word release, because
he might release. I still wouldn't do this close to the ground.

Todd Smith
3S

Good advice all around. Radio is a good first response in any case,
unless you're in a "kiting" situation, in which case the tow pilot
must release as fast as he can. If the glider is not kiting and the
tow plane can clear obstacles at the end of the runway, please try not
to act hastily. The advice to be calm on the radio is good. If you
cannot think of the glider's call sign (happened to me once), just say
"spoilers, spoilers, spoilers". That should get the message across.
Fred

ahh.. excuse me... but I do not think the rudder waggle is the release
signal.. at least in the USA

Rudder Wag in flight means... CHECK YOUR GLIDER.. something is not right..
SPOILERS are the first thing to check.
FAA-H-8083-13, page 7-2, and other SSA references

If you waggle the rudder to get the glider to check his spoilers, and he
releases, poor training on the glider pilots side.
If you really want him off tow because of a tow plane problem. I agree, a
Wing Rock Wave Off, if I as tow have time. If I as tow do not have time, his
first clue may be a puff of smoke from my engine and the rope coming toward
him. I will not waste time for a wing rock and time for him to figure out
what I want.

I agree, calm radios first, but if the frequency is so busy that I cannot
get a word in. Rudder waggle.

BT

"toad" wrote in message
...
Since the rudder waggle signal was brought up in another thread, I
have a few thoughts and would like to get other opinions. I am a
glider and tow pilot for my club, so I have thought these through from
both ends.

To start with, if the tow plane gives you a wave off signal, THERE IS
TIME TO THINK ABOUT IT ! If there was no time (30 sec or less to
disaster) the tow pilot will just pull their release. So any signal
that you get, you have enough time to carefully think. "What is that
signal; check spoilers or wave-off ?" Take 10 seconds and THINK !

On the tow-pilot side, assume that the glider pilot will most likely
release when you give the waggle, so don't waggle unless 1) you are
going to die soon, if the glider doesn't close the spoilers, or 2) the
glider is high enough and close enough to the airport to land with
full spoilers out.

If you have a radio, you could calmly call the glider and say "hey
glider, are your spoilers open ?" Don't say the word release, because
he might release. I still wouldn't do this close to the ground.

Todd Smith
3S

BT wrote:
ahh.. excuse me... but I do not think the rudder waggle is the release
signal.. at least in the USA

Rudder waggle was the "release at your discretion" signal at a lot of
places in the USA. The "check your glider" signal is fairly recent
innovation (past 10 or 15 years?). You can complain about training if
you like, but I bet the majority of US pilots will nonetheless release
immediately if you waggle the rudder at them...

Marc

Marc Ramsey wrote:


You can complain about training if you like,
but I bet the majority of US pilots will
nonetheless release immediately if you waggle
the rudder at them....


In which case complaints about training and/or preparation on the part
of the glider pilot are definitely in order. When did we start blaming
tow pilots for glider pilots' mistakes?

It sounds like the best way to reduce the number of rudder-signal
miscues would be to include them in the pre-flight briefing, and not to
refrain from using them simply because we have lost confidence in our
own training establishment.


Jack

In article , J a c k
writes
Marc Ramsey wrote:


You can complain about training if you like,
but I bet the majority of US pilots will
nonetheless release immediately if you waggle
the rudder at them....


In which case complaints about training and/or preparation on the part
of the glider pilot are definitely in order. When did we start blaming
tow pilots for glider pilots' mistakes?

It sounds like the best way to reduce the number of rudder-signal
miscues would be to include them in the pre-flight briefing, and not to
refrain from using them simply because we have lost confidence in our
own training establishment.


Jack


At our club the then chief flying instructor asked me, as tuggie, to do
a rudder waggle when he was doing annual revalidations. Three out of the
four pilots doing their annual checks released. That was two years ago.

These days, when you do your annual, you are asked about the signals
before you go.

One of the signals is that the glider "flies out to the left as far as
possible and rocks the wings laterally" The meaning is that the glider
cant let the rope go.

What happens then? We never practice descending on tow. I asked our
resident instructor, he said the tug should continue climbing and
position the glider in a good place to make a safe landing.

I wonder what other people do in the event that the glider cant release?

--
Mike Lindsay

The book says that we are going to land on tow (and we practize for that).

But then, I haven't heared of such a case in the last 27 years...

Bert

"Mike Lindsay" wrote in message
...

I wonder what other people do in the event that the glider cant release?

--
Mike Lindsay

On Nov 19, 9:27 am, Mike Lindsay wrote:
snip
At our club the then chief flying instructor asked me, as tuggie, to do
a rudder waggle when he was doing annual revalidations. Three out of the
four pilots doing their annual checks released. That was two years ago.

These days, when you do your annual, you are asked about the signals
before you go.

One of the signals is that the glider "flies out to the left as far as
possible and rocks the wings laterally" The meaning is that the glider
cant let the rope go.

What happens then?

In my recent experience of pracsing giving the signal, absolutely
nothing most of the time. The same when when the instructor flew out
to the left and gave the signal.


We never practice descending on tow.

I have. I was surprised how easy it was.


I asked our
resident instructor, he said the tug should continue climbing and
position the glider in a good place to make a safe landing.

I wonder what other people do in the event that the glider cant release?

I was told that the tug takes you back to where you can safely get
back to the field (quite possibly descending en-route), and releases
you. You land normally but using a reference point well inside the
field because of the tow rope dangling from the glider.

I wonder what other people do in the event that the glider cant release?
Mike Lindsay

In France, they taught us to open the airbrakes full, and then go
below the tow plane wake. Sit there until the tow plane brings you
back to the runway. Works like a charm, and is actually part of the
curriculum to get your license over there....

Richard
Phoenix, AZ

I think we are missing the point here, guys. Sure we should know the
signals, but we don't. Why? Because we almost never use them and only
refresh ourselves every couple of years when its biannual time. What
DO we use? We use the radio, every flight. I believe the radio should
be the primary method to communicate with the tow
piolt.............................you can't misinterpret a call to
CLOSE YOUR SPOILERS. What problems can we have with using the radio?
Dead battery..........Volume not turned up............Squelch not
set.............Wrong frequency................Othere on the freq.
How can we be sure that radio communications will work when
needed?.....................................By always doing a com-
check, just before starting every tow.
JJ

PS; If others are garbage-mouthing the frequence...............Shout
SPOILERS, SPOILERS, SPOILERS and keep shouting it until the guy gets
the message and he will just as soon as the garbage-mouth takes a
breath. This will work, if you have performed a com-check!