Rumsfeld's on Bravery

"Gene Storey" wrote in message
news:XTCDb.2071$6l1.999@okepread03...

Rumsfeld's bravery instinct made sure he was in the Reserves during
Vietnam,
and he never even went there TDY for a day, not even as a Congressman.

Very brave.


Right. Just another coward whose active duty service occurred when there
was no conflict.

"Gene Storey" wrote in message
news:XTCDb.2071$6l1.999@okepread03...
"Kevin Brooks" wrote

IIRC his service was just after the Korean Conflict. That said, it takes a
decent pair to land a high performance aircraft on a pitching and rolling
deck IMO.

Women don't have testicles, and they operate off of carriers.

Rumsfeld's bravery instinct made sure he was in the Reserves during Vietnam,
and he never even went there TDY for a day, not even as a Congressman.

Very brave.

This is what I got from www.defenselink.mil concerning his military service. I
think I read somewhere that his flying for the Navy consisted of being an
instructor pilot.

"Mr. Rumsfeld attended Princeton University on academic and NROTC scholarships
(A.B., 1954) and served in the U.S. Navy (1954-57) as an aviator and flight
instructor. In 1957, he transferred to the Ready Reserve and continued his Naval
service in flying and administrative assignments as a drilling reservist until
1975. He transferred to the Standby Reserve when he became Secretary of Defense
in 1975 and to the Retired Reserve with the rank of Captain in 1989."

George Z.

"Gene Storey" wrote in message
news:XTCDb.2071$6l1.999@okepread03...
"Kevin Brooks" wrote

IIRC his service was just after the Korean Conflict. That said, it takes
a
decent pair to land a high performance aircraft on a pitching and
rolling
deck IMO.

Women don't have testicles, and they operate off of carriers.

Rumsfeld's bravery instinct made sure he was in the Reserves during
Vietnam,
and he never even went there TDY for a day, not even as a Congressman.

He did his active service before the Vietnam War ever came about--way
before. He continued to serve in the USNR afterwards. If you are somehow
claiming that service in an active component during the Cold War, followed
by reserve service for long years, is something to be ashamed of, you need a
serious attitude adjustment, not to mention a visit to the clue department.

Brooks


Very brave.

"phil hunt" wrote in message
. ..
On Tue, 16 Dec 2003 04:07:33 GMT, Kevin Brooks
wrote:

"phil hunt" wrote in message
...
Saddam was an assassin in his youth, which presumably took osme
courage. What's the bravest thing Rumsfeld has personally done?

He flew jets onto and off of carriers at one time

Anywhere near a war zone?

IIRC his service was just after the Korean Conflict. That said, it takes
a
decent pair to land a high performance aircraft on a pitching and rolling
deck IMO.


--have you done that?

Nope. The only thing I've ever flown is a glider.

So you are somewhere beneath Rumsfeld then on this mythical
totem-pole-of-courage?

I've no idea whether I am or not. I've never claimed to be
courageous, BTW, and in any case it is irrelevant to the quewstion
of whether Saddam or Rumsfeld is more courageous.

I just find it comical when folks start besmirching someone else's courage,
when their own demonstrations have not exhibited anything superlative to the
individual they are commenting about.


And
FYI, being an assassin does not necessarily take a lot of guts

I suspect it probably does, in that it does seem to be a rather
dangerous activity, if one gets caught.

Gee, you could say the same thing about the guy who specializes in
snatching
purses from little old ladies in the shopping mall parking lot--but I
still
don't consider that to be an example of bravery.

Well, then, you'll have to define bravery.

I was using it to mean deliberately taking an action that knowingly
places oneself at a risk of death or serious injury.

By that criterion, I guess I'm not a particularly brave person; for
example, I've never done anything that I thought was reasonably
likely to kill me.

How brave are you, by that criterion?

I always hate this kind of dick-measuring--it is a tool of the misinformed
and the Walter Mitty crowd. If you really care to know, I had exactly one
situation where I was scared ****less (almost literally) but managed to
handle it while safeguarding a young E-5 who was with me at the time.
Suffice it to say that it involved an old M151 jeep sans rollover
protection, a dirt road which was axle deep in mud, a very steep dropoff
into the valley below, the failure of said roadway edge, and telling said
E-5 to get out of the jeep even though we both thought that the act may
result in it going over the edge. I don't consider it particularly brave
(there was not much to be gained by both of us going over that roadside),
but it did go some way towards meeting the best criteria I have ever
personally heard describing that quality--my old college boxing instructor
once told us that bravery was doing what had to be done in spite of your own
natural fears. Using that definition, I don't think your assassins make the
grade--unless you think those women sitting at busstops or loading their
packages in the car just HAD to be shot by those miscreants I described
earlier. Now, are you about done with the dick-measuring?

Brooks

On Tue, 16 Dec 2003 14:37:46 GMT, Kevin Brooks wrote:

"phil hunt" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 16 Dec 2003 04:07:33 GMT, Kevin Brooks
wrote:

"phil hunt" wrote in message
...
Saddam was an assassin in his youth, which presumably took osme
courage. What's the bravest thing Rumsfeld has personally done?

He flew jets onto and off of carriers at one time

Anywhere near a war zone?

IIRC his service was just after the Korean Conflict. That said, it takes
a
decent pair to land a high performance aircraft on a pitching and rolling
deck IMO.


--have you done that?

Nope. The only thing I've ever flown is a glider.

So you are somewhere beneath Rumsfeld then on this mythical
totem-pole-of-courage?

I've no idea whether I am or not. I've never claimed to be
courageous, BTW, and in any case it is irrelevant to the quewstion
of whether Saddam or Rumsfeld is more courageous.

I just find it comical when folks start besmirching someone else's courage,

I haven't besmirched *anyone's* courage, merely asked about it.

when their own demonstrations have not exhibited anything superlative to the
individual they are commenting about.

Thgat's like saying only tall people have a right to comment on the
height of others.

Well, then, you'll have to define bravery.

I was using it to mean deliberately taking an action that knowingly
places oneself at a risk of death or serious injury.

By that criterion, I guess I'm not a particularly brave person; for
example, I've never done anything that I thought was reasonably
likely to kill me.

How brave are you, by that criterion?

I always hate this kind of dick-measuring

It's not dick-measuring; look, some people might have a big ego
thing about others considering them courageous, but I don't. It's
just another property about people that some have more than others.

--it is a tool of the misinformed
and the Walter Mitty crowd. If you really care to know, I had exactly one
situation where I was scared ****less (almost literally) but managed to
handle it while safeguarding a young E-5 who was with me at the time.
Suffice it to say that it involved an old M151 jeep sans rollover
protection, a dirt road which was axle deep in mud, a very steep dropoff
into the valley below, the failure of said roadway edge, and telling said
E-5 to get out of the jeep even though we both thought that the act may
result in it going over the edge. I don't consider it particularly brave
(there was not much to be gained by both of us going over that roadside),
but it did go some way towards meeting the best criteria I have ever
personally heard describing that quality--my old college boxing instructor
once told us that bravery was doing what had to be done in spite of your own
natural fears. Using that definition, I don't think your assassins make the
grade--unless you think those women sitting at busstops or loading their
packages in the car just HAD to be shot by those miscreants I described
earlier. Now, are you about done with the dick-measuring?

Brooks




--
"It's easier to find people online who openly support the KKK than
people who openly support the RIAA" -- comment on Wikipedia
(Email: , but first subtract 275 and reverse
the last two letters).

On Mon, 15 Dec 2003 23:03:55 GMT, "Mortimer Schnerd, RN" wrote:

Yama wrote:
Actually, Israeli certainly wouldn't have been (though they may have
detained him in some humiliating way). They know very well that
killing him would also kill any attempt for peace for a very long
time.


Frankly, I've come to the conclusion that it doesn't really matter what the
Israelis do. As long as Israel exists, the Arabs will always try to destroy it.

And the Israelis will try to destroy the Palestinians. There are no "clean
hands" in that mess.

Al Minyard

"Alan Minyard" wrote in message
...

And the Israelis will try to destroy the Palestinians. There are no "clean
hands" in that mess.


Maybe not, but one side's hands are significantly dirtier than the other
side's. The majority of Israelis are willing to live alongside a peaceful
Palestinian state, few Palestinians are willing to live in peace alongside
Israel.

But to suggest that both sides are equally to blame does Israel an
injustice.

Jarg


"Alan Minyard" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 15 Dec 2003 23:03:55 GMT, "Mortimer Schnerd, RN"
wrote:

Yama wrote:
Actually, Israeli certainly wouldn't have been (though they may have
detained him in some humiliating way). They know very well that
killing him would also kill any attempt for peace for a very long
time.


Frankly, I've come to the conclusion that it doesn't really matter what
the
Israelis do. As long as Israel exists, the Arabs will always try to
destroy it.

And the Israelis will try to destroy the Palestinians. There are no "clean
hands" in that mess.

Al Minyard

"Gene Storey" wrote:

"Kevin Brooks" wrote

IIRC his service was just after the Korean Conflict. That said, it takes a
decent pair to land a high performance aircraft on a pitching and rolling
deck IMO.

Women don't have testicles, and they operate off of carriers.

Testicles?...testicles!...I thought people meant watches...

-Gord.

"I'm trying to get as old as I can,
and it must be working 'cause I'm
the oldest now that I've ever been"

Why do you presume that assassination requires some courage?

Because the assassin is deliberately doing an action that he knows
is likely to increase the probability of his death or serious
injury.


By that same logic however, murderers, rapists, thieves, bank robbers, and drug
abusers are all courageous.


Ron
Pilot/Wildland Firefighter