AV gas prices

In article ,
Dave wrote:

Dan wrote:
Steve Hix wrote:
In article ,
Matt Whiting wrote:

Sliker wrote:
On Wed, 30 Apr 2008 08:26:24 -0700 (PDT), BobR
wrote:

All the complainers have to do is just do the math. At todays price of
$120 a barrel, divided by 42 gallons = 2.86 a gallon. In my area,
regular is selling for 3:50 a gallon. That leaves 64 cents a gallon to
refine it, transport it, leave some profit for the oil company and gas
station, and includes the taxes. It's the price of crude that's
killing us, not the oil companies.
Really? Have you noticed the profits of many of the large oil
companies of late?

The large absolute values of major energy companies' profits results
from the much larger values of their costs of doing business.

Try looking at the profits as a percentage of total operational costs.

They're down around 10% or so, which is pretty typical for healthy
companies in other fields.

And a lot lower than many other companies.

The U.S. pays a lot less for gasoline than may other countries. I
think it's over $18.00 (U.S.) per gallon in Aruba.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

The oil companies don't own oil wells?

The oil companies don't set the taxes paid by customers, for one thing.

And in some countries, no, they don't own the wells.

Dave wrote:


Dan wrote:
Steve Hix wrote:
In article ,
Matt Whiting wrote:

Sliker wrote:
On Wed, 30 Apr 2008 08:26:24 -0700 (PDT), BobR
wrote:

All the complainers have to do is just do the math. At todays price of
$120 a barrel, divided by 42 gallons = 2.86 a gallon. In my area,
regular is selling for 3:50 a gallon. That leaves 64 cents a gallon to
refine it, transport it, leave some profit for the oil company and gas
station, and includes the taxes. It's the price of crude that's
killing us, not the oil companies.
Really? Have you noticed the profits of many of the large oil
companies of late?

The large absolute values of major energy companies' profits results
from the much larger values of their costs of doing business.

Try looking at the profits as a percentage of total operational costs.

They're down around 10% or so, which is pretty typical for healthy
companies in other fields.

And a lot lower than many other companies.

The U.S. pays a lot less for gasoline than may other countries. I
think it's over $18.00 (U.S.) per gallon in Aruba.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

The oil companies don't own oil wells?

No many, many of them don't.

Dave wrote:


Dan wrote:
Steve Hix wrote:
In article ,
Matt Whiting wrote:

Sliker wrote:
On Wed, 30 Apr 2008 08:26:24 -0700 (PDT), BobR
wrote:

All the complainers have to do is just do the math. At todays price of
$120 a barrel, divided by 42 gallons = 2.86 a gallon. In my area,
regular is selling for 3:50 a gallon. That leaves 64 cents a gallon to
refine it, transport it, leave some profit for the oil company and gas
station, and includes the taxes. It's the price of crude that's
killing us, not the oil companies.
Really? Have you noticed the profits of many of the large oil
companies of late?

The large absolute values of major energy companies' profits results
from the much larger values of their costs of doing business.

Try looking at the profits as a percentage of total operational costs.

They're down around 10% or so, which is pretty typical for healthy
companies in other fields.

And a lot lower than many other companies.

The U.S. pays a lot less for gasoline than may other countries. I
think it's over $18.00 (U.S.) per gallon in Aruba.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

The oil companies don't own oil wells?

I didn't say one way or the other, did I?

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

On May 2, 10:25*pm, Dan wrote:
Steve Hix wrote:
In article ,
*Matt Whiting wrote:

Sliker wrote:
On Wed, 30 Apr 2008 08:26:24 -0700 (PDT), BobR
wrote:

All the complainers have to do is just do the math. At todays price of
$120 a barrel, divided by 42 gallons = 2.86 a gallon. In my area,
regular is selling for 3:50 a gallon. That leaves 64 cents a gallon to
refine it, transport it, leave some profit for the oil company and gas
station, and includes the taxes. It's the price of crude that's
killing us, not the oil companies.
Really? *Have you noticed the profits of many of the large oil companies
of late?

The large absolute values of major energy companies' profits results
from the much larger values of their costs of doing business.

Try looking at the profits as a percentage of total operational costs.

They're down around 10% or so, which is pretty typical for healthy
companies in other fields.

* *And a lot lower than many other companies.

* *The U.S. pays a lot less for gasoline than may other countries. I
think it's over $18.00 (U.S.) per gallon in Aruba.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

And in Venezuala gasoline costs $0.15 a gallon...

wrote:

And in Venezuala gasoline costs $0.15 a gallon...

Which is exactly the opposite of a tax the government refining it
themselves and selling it cheap. Probably worse for their economy in the
long run than what happens in Europe.

Think about what will happen when that idiot they have running the
country finally get ousted and the price goes back to market norms.

On Mon, 05 May 2008 16:52:18 -0500, Gig 601Xl Builder
wrote:

wrote:

And in Venezuala gasoline costs $0.15 a gallon...

Which is exactly the opposite of a tax the government refining it
themselves and selling it cheap. Probably worse for their economy in the
long run than what happens in Europe.

Think about what will happen when that idiot they have running the
country finally get ousted and the price goes back to market norms.

That'll never happen. The only way to get back to cheap oil is if we
took over the oil wells. And the fallout from doing that would be
major. Although there are a few countries that have a lot of oil that
need their asses kicked big time. That jerk down in Venezuala for one,
and those camel riding rag headed idiots in the middle east. The USA
is probably the most powerful nation in earth's history that doesn't
use it's power to the fullest by it's own choice. The British could
fall into that catagory in their past also. You think if someone in
this planet's past like Hitler, or fill in the blank, that had our
miltary, and nuclear arsenal would be putting up with todays oil
prices? Not on your life, and they'd probably control just about all
the oil on the planet. But we are the nice guys, so we pay through the
nose.

On Fri, 02 May 2008 23:25:14 -0500, Dan wrote:
The U.S. pays a lot less for gasoline than may other countries. I
think it's over $18.00 (U.S.) per gallon in Aruba.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

It would be painful filling up your moped down there. Fortunately,
that's about all you need to get around in that place.

The imeadiate issue is AVGAS for those engines requiring 100 octane. This
stuff may not be available much longer at any price since its prodiction
depends on a single producer of TEL. The EPA has also issued a proposed
rule making requiring removal of lead. The immeadiate future of 100LL is
looking grimmer by the day.

Lead free 100 octane is possible but not with crude oil as the feedstock.
Iso-Octane is the laboratory reference for the octane scale as it exhibits
exactly '100 octane'. What if you could produce large quantities of
Iso-Octane from biomass? There are some small groups trying to do exactly
that by genetically engineering microbes to either directly produce
Iso-Octane or a convienient precursor that can be refined into lead free 100
octane AVGAS.

This is economically reasonable since the total comsumption of 100 octane
AVGAS by those high-performance engines that require it a fraction of one
percent of all motor fuels. A small biofuel production facility might be
able to meet all of North America's 100 octane AVGAS needs. Those engines
not needing 100 octane can run aviation grade 92 octane which is essentially
100LL minus the lead.

None of this will bring back $1/gal AVGAS but it would be a 100% domestic
source not at the mercy of global oil prices. I hope these guys get a move
on since I've read predictions of 100LL's demise within 12 months.

Bill D



"Sliker" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 05 May 2008 16:52:18 -0500, Gig 601Xl Builder
wrote:

wrote:

And in Venezuala gasoline costs $0.15 a gallon...

Which is exactly the opposite of a tax the government refining it
themselves and selling it cheap. Probably worse for their economy in the
long run than what happens in Europe.

Think about what will happen when that idiot they have running the
country finally get ousted and the price goes back to market norms.

That'll never happen. The only way to get back to cheap oil is if we
took over the oil wells. And the fallout from doing that would be
major. Although there are a few countries that have a lot of oil that
need their asses kicked big time. That jerk down in Venezuala for one,
and those camel riding rag headed idiots in the middle east. The USA
is probably the most powerful nation in earth's history that doesn't
use it's power to the fullest by it's own choice. The British could
fall into that catagory in their past also. You think if someone in
this planet's past like Hitler, or fill in the blank, that had our
miltary, and nuclear arsenal would be putting up with todays oil
prices? Not on your life, and they'd probably control just about all
the oil on the planet. But we are the nice guys, so we pay through the
nose.

"Sliker" wrote in message
...
I've got the same engine in my plane, it's an O-320 D2C, but there are
other number series with the same compression ratio in the 160hp
class. That engine is listed on Peterson's mogas STC site as one that
is approved for premium unleaded autofuel. So you shouldn't run into
any problems as far as detonation goes, vapor lock is another issue,
and is different in each aircraft type. Just the other day a pilot at
my local airport said that if the gas has the common 10% ethanol
added, it's vapor lock potential goes up a lot. I'm not sure about
those facts, but I think it has more to do with fuel system design.
Gravity flow systems seem almost immuned to that problem. With wing
tanks below the carb, the best setup is to have fuel pumps at the tank
"pushing" the fuel to the carb. Rather than the more common setup of
the fuel pump in the engine compartment sucking the fuel from the
tank. Peterson's website has a good dissertation about homebuilts
worth reading, in regards to fuel system design to help prevent vapor
lock.

On Mon, 28 Apr 2008 21:13:16 -0700, "Stuart & Kathryn Fields"
wrote:

Well it has happened. Local 100LL is $5.60/ gal and is not expected to
decrease. Is there anyone out there using Supreme MoGas in a Lycoming
0320
with 8.5:1 compression? If so what ignition timing changes were needed if
any?

thanks
Stu Fields

Sliker: Thanks for the answer. Most of the rest of the responses ignored
my question but assumed that I needed either a course in accounting or
fossel fuel economics, or some barroom counseling in an attempt to reduce my
grief over the increased fuel prices.
I looked into the Peterson site and got a bunch of useful info. I've also
found several University studies that have looked into alternative fuels to
and including 100% ethanol. More studying is required.
Somewhere in my excellent memory that I have limited access to, is an
anecdote of some guy who has been using MoGas in his Lycoming equipped
Stinson for quite a few years. The ethanol aspect was not discussed and his
history certainly started before the ethanol additive.
For the very near future I will be mixing Supreme with 100LL until the LL
runs out. When I switch to 100% Supreme, I will be hovering my helicopter
for a few hours and keeping track of the CHT, EGT, MP etc.

Thanks again for useful response.

stu

Stuart & Kathryn Fields wrote:

I looked into the Peterson site and got a bunch of useful info.

Stu, did you look at this page on the Peterson site?