Change the rules for the National Guard.?

On Fri, 20 Feb 2004 12:10:18 -0500, "Kevin Brooks"
wrote:



Guardsmen from a single brigade deployed from
Florida had received over forty Purple Hearts in Iraq as of November; how
many did YOU get?

Brooks


While I agree with all that you said in the snipped portion (except
for the gratuitous and scatological personal attack), I might simply
note that Purple Hearts are not a good measure of combat
effectiveness. While receipt of a PH is certainly a statement that you
were there, it doesn't mean that your contribution was particularly
effective.

I'd much rather see the regional national equivalent of the PH be
awarded to the military of the opposition.

I'm proud to say that I've got no Purple Hearts. Never particularly
aspired to one.



Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
Smithsonian Institution Press
ISBN #1-58834-103-8

"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...
The guard is where you go when you don't want to go to war but want
everyone to
think that you do. End of story.


What an amazing statement! It is demonstrably untrue now - see Iraq - and I
doubt it was ever true. I think you know this and are just being stubborn,
but if not it's time for you to start taking your senility pills.

Jarg

Subject: Change the rules for the National Guard.?
From: (OXMORON1)
Date: 2/20/04 9:20 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:

Art wrote:
The guard is where you go when you don't want to go to war but want everyone
to
think that you do. End of story.

Art,
That was uncalled for and unmitigated Bull****!
I will grant you that at one time the State Militias were sort of "Old Boys
Clubs" and a place to go drink beer during summer camp, but that has not
always
been the case. It is not the case now.
Times change and most people keep up with them, you do not.
By the way, the Guard was activated for WWII (your war, remember it?) before
you even got out of high school. The Guard was taking casualties long before
you got in the nose compartment of Willie and saved the world from the evil
Hun.
You owe some people an apology for that crack.

Rick Clark
Oxmoron1


Then so does Colin Powell. He said exactly the same thing.


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

Subject: Change the rules for the National Guard.?
From: Ed Rasimus
Date: 2/20/04 9:03 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:

On 20 Feb 2004 16:24:32 GMT, (ArtKramr) wrote:


The guard is where you go when you don't want to go to war but want everyone
to
think that you do. End of story.


Arthur Kramer

You're not paying attention, Art. The Guard and Reserves today (that's
TODAY!!!) are very much a part of active operations. Joining the Guard
or Reserve has, for the last twenty or more years meant a very serious
obligation and a very real expectation that you will be in harm's way.

Things change over time and what might have been true long ago in a
galaxy far, far away is not necessarily still the fact.

You might also want to consider editing several hundred lines of
assembled previous thread messages, particularly when appending
non-sequitur, one-liners ala-Tarver. It makes scrolling so much less
tedious particularly for those of us who don't spontaneously kill-file
folks who often contribute good stuff.


Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
Smithsonian Institution Press
ISBN #1-58834-103-8


Colin Powell said exactly the same thing. Often.


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

Art wrote after I called his statement Bull****:

Then so does Colin Powell. He said exactly the same thing.

Fine, please reference a source that I can look up.
You did not reference it as a quote in your intial post. Just because Powell
was a General Officer does not preclude him from uttering bull**** either.

Rick Clark

Subject: Change the rules for the National Guard.?
From: (OXMORON1)
Date: 2/20/04 11:16 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:

Art wrote after I called his statement Bull****:

Then so does Colin Powell. He said exactly the same thing.

Fine, please reference a source that I can look up.
You did not reference it as a quote in your intial post. Just because Powell
was a General Officer does not preclude him from uttering bull**** either.

Rick Clark


I guess none of us are above uttering bull****.


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

yeah that helps a lot?

On Thu, 19 Feb 2004 15:59:58 -0800, "Tarver Engineering"
wrote:


"Kevin Brooks" wrote in message
...

Perhaps this will help:

"fudog50" wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 19 Feb 2004 16:12:47 -0500, "Kevin Brooks"
wrote:


You are a moron

Art wrote:
Art wrote after I called his statement Bull****:

Then so does Colin Powell. He said exactly the same thing.

Fine, please reference a source that I can look up.
You did not reference it as a quote in your intial post. Just because
Powell
was a General Officer does not preclude him from uttering bull**** either.

Rick Clark


I guess none of us are above uttering bull****.

Correct Art, you got this one exactly correct!
Now, show us a reference that we can look up and read Mr. Powell's statement
and/or tell this group that you are quoting him verbatim.
I will still state that under current day situations that the statement is
bull**** and an apology is owed by whoever made such an ignorant statement.

Rick Clark
No I am not in the Guard

Subject: Change the rules for the National Guard.?
From: (OXMORON1)
Date: 2/20/04 12:30 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:

Art wrote:
Art wrote after I called his statement Bull****:

Then so does Colin Powell. He said exactly the same thing.

Fine, please reference a source that I can look up.
You did not reference it as a quote in your intial post. Just because
Powell
was a General Officer does not preclude him from uttering bull**** either.

Rick Clark


I guess none of us are above uttering bull****.

Correct Art, you got this one exactly correct!
Now, show us a reference that we can look up and read Mr. Powell's statement
and/or tell this group that you are quoting him verbatim.
I will still state that under current day situations that the statement is
bull**** and an apology is owed by whoever made such an ignorant statement.

Rick Clark
No I am not in the Guard




The statement is very well known as was quoted in this NG about a week ago.
I'll have to go into Google and dig it out for you. Hang in there.



Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

Subject: Change the rules for the National Guard.?
From: (OXMORON1)
Date: 2/20/04 11:16 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:

Art wrote after I called his statement Bull****:

Then so does Colin Powell. He said exactly the same thing.

Fine, please reference a source that I can look up.
You did not reference it as a quote in your intial post. Just because Powell
was a General Officer does not preclude him from uttering bull**** either.

Rick Clark

Colin Powell was once outraged by elites who “wrangle slots in Reserve and
Guard units.� Now he defends George Bush, who wrangled himself into a Guard
unit.
By John Greeley


In his autobiography, Colin Powel is truly revealed as a man of honor.
Certainly his military career provides us an example of what is best in
American society and also in the man himself. His rise to the heights of
military command speaks volumes on both counts. This is especially true since
he is a man of color. Perhaps in no other country in the world could this
happen, and it should make us all proud.

In particular, one comment he makes in his autobiography comes to mind at this
time because of something he just said while giving testimony on Capitol Hill.
It was in response to some questions Rep. Brown, (Dem, Ohio), had concerning
the ongoing problem of President Bush and his Air National Guard attendance
record.

The Secretary of State fairly bristled at the comment that President Bush might
have been AWOL towards the end of his Air National Guard career and told the
Representative in no uncertain terms, “Don’t go there!� along with an
admonition that if the Representative wanted to turn this into a political
fight, there was a time and place for it.

From where I sat, it was a ferocious and threatening display of raw,
confrontational, Executive Branch power. It immediately reminded me of
something I had read in his autobiography in which he wrote:

I am angry that so many of the sons of the powerful and well-placed ... managed
to wangle slots in Reserve and National Guard units .... Of the many tragedies
of Vietnam, this raw class discrimination strikes me as the most damaging to
the ideal that all Americans are created equal and owe equal allegiance to
their country (Colin Powell, My American Journey, p. 148)

We are all entitled, of course, to change our minds about important issues over
the course of our lifetimes. But there is the unmistakable ring of truth, I
think, in that quotation from his book. Here we have a man dedicated to the
honor and glory of the Army and the terrible sacrifices those who serve in it
must make. He is justly outraged at the prospect of wealth and privilege
trumping the need for sacrifice in the cause of this great nation. He reveals
himself as a genuine, life-long soldier. A man imbued with duty and honor.

Yet the face he shows as Secretary of State is entirely different. Here, he
defends his President from the slings and arrows of the political fray no
matter what the cost to him personally or to those ideals expressed above.
Perhaps if Colin Powell had done his duty in his capacity as Secretary of
State, that “allegiance to their country� he spoke of so eloquently might
have saved us from the unwarranted invasion of Iraq and thus preserved
thousands of lives. That failure certainly is “…damaging to the ideal that
all Americans are created equal…�

It must be hard to reconcile the two positions, but that is what happens at the
top of the pyramid where all power coalesces and moral clarity is sharpest. On
the day the invasion of Iraq began, there should have been resignations
tendered at the highest levels because those men, of all people, understood
what a betrayal of our basic American principles it was. To stay meant to
acquiesce in the lies and now there is nothing left to do but to bristle at the
criticisms, even the very timid ones such as Representative Brown offered, and
hope that is enough to save your job and your dignity.


John Greeley is a Marine Corps veteran of Vietnam, a graduate of St. John's
University Law School and a contributing editor at Intervention. You can email
your comments to John at




Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer