If yiu didn't fight in WW II.....

Yea Baby! What was it like when the 32 Ford showed up at the dealership?

"George Z. Bush" wrote

I was born in 1923 and, when I was a kid, I was hugely interested in everything
I could get my hands on about WWI. To this day, I can probably dredge up
details about various land battles that today's youngsters don't even have a
clue about.

George Z.

In article ,
ArtKramr wrote:
If you didn't fight in WW II do you feel as though your had missed something?
Do you feel that given your druthers you'd rather have been there than not? Any
regrets at having missed it? Anyone?

Having heard the descriptions of that war from my father (coast defence
during summer 1940, including Cromwell, Atlantic escorts 1940-1943,
channel 1943-44, south atlantic escorts 1944-45) and some of his
contemporaries (whose service included variously intruder missions over
France in Beaufighters, tanks in France in 1940, the desert and Italy,
motor gunboats in the channel and the Adriatic, minesweepers in the
channel and flying fulmars over the western desert, then Corsairs in
the far east) I'm *profoundly* glad I missed it. I can see the scars it
left on people. I'm very glad that my generation didn't have to go through
that (and I think my parents generation are mainly glad that they saved
their children and grandchildren from having to do it).
That said, my parents' generation were faced with either doing something
about a truely horrible threat (though without knowing - then - quite
how horrible it was) or having to live under it. If I'd been faced with
the same situation I can only hope I might have done as well. I'm not
sure I would, but then maybe neither were they. I'm very glad to have been
spared that.
The tragedy - in this country at least (.uk) - is the way part of that
generation's legacy - the country they built *after* they came home -
has been squandered by my generation.

--
Andy Breen ~ Interplanetary Scintillation Research Group
http://users.aber.ac.uk/azb/
"Time has stopped, says the Black Lion clock
and eternity has begun" (Dylan Thomas)

Subject: If yiu didn't fight in WW II.....
From: (ANDREW ROBERT BREEN)
Date: 2/27/04 1:53 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:

In article ,
ArtKramr wrote:
If you didn't fight in WW II do you feel as though your had missed
something?
Do you feel that given your druthers you'd rather have been there than not?
Any
regrets at having missed it? Anyone?

Having heard the descriptions of that war from my father (coast defence
during summer 1940, including Cromwell, Atlantic escorts 1940-1943,
channel 1943-44, south atlantic escorts 1944-45) and some of his
contemporaries (whose service included variously intruder missions over
France in Beaufighters, tanks in France in 1940, the desert and Italy,
motor gunboats in the channel and the Adriatic, minesweepers in the
channel and flying fulmars over the western desert, then Corsairs in
the far east) I'm *profoundly* glad I missed it. I can see the scars it
left on people. I'm very glad that my generation didn't have to go through
that (and I think my parents generation are mainly glad that they saved
their children and grandchildren from having to do it).
That said, my parents' generation were faced with either doing something
about a truely horrible threat (though without knowing - then - quite
how horrible it was) or having to live under it. If I'd been faced with
the same situation I can only hope I might have done as well. I'm not
sure I would, but then maybe neither were they. I'm very glad to have been
spared that.
The tragedy - in this country at least (.uk) - is the way part of that
generation's legacy - the country they built *after* they came home -
has been squandered by my generation.

--
Andy Breen ~

Very thoughtful post Andy. Many I have heard from over the last 60 years
expressed pretty much what you did. It often just starts with they wished they
had been there with us. It was a war worth fighting and their lives would have
been a bit more worthwhile had they fought that good fight. Then many question
if they could have done as well as we did if they were there with us. I always
assure them that they would have done exactly as we did had they been there
alongside us, And I believe that...
But I think that the sense of ultimate adventure and achievement has a lot to
do with it. The war was the ultimate event in the 20th cenntury, Many are sorry
they missed it,


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

In article ,
ArtKramr wrote:
Subject: If yiu didn't fight in WW II.....
From: (ANDREW ROBERT BREEN)
Date: 2/27/04 1:53 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:

In article ,
ArtKramr wrote:
If you didn't fight in WW II do you feel as though your had missed
something?
Do you feel that given your druthers you'd rather have been there than not?
Any
regrets at having missed it? Anyone?
That said, my parents' generation were faced with either doing something
about a truely horrible threat (though without knowing - then - quite
how horrible it was) or having to live under it. If I'd been faced with
the same situation I can only hope I might have done as well. I'm not
sure I would, but then maybe neither were they. I'm very glad to have been
spared that.

Very thoughtful post Andy. Many I have heard from over the last 60 years
expressed pretty much what you did. It often just starts with they wished they
had been there with us. It was a war worth fighting and their lives would have

Thanks for the feedbacck, Art. It's something I've been thinking about
more than usual recently - my father having been very seriously ill
over the last week (he's almost completely recovered now - like many
of his generation he's a tough guy, in spite of having had a tough time).

Hope you won't mind me making a suggestion - I've been following the
accounts you've been putting up on your web-space (fascinating stuff):
Have you considered offering them to one of the archives for long-term
preservation (not that I'm not hoping you'll be with us for many years to
come!). The 2nd World War Experience Centre seems to be a rather good one,
and they are on the look-out for a larger US presence there.

http://www.war-experience.org/

I had some dealings with them when they put some stuff of my father's
up on the site - editing it into shape and so on - and they seemed
very good.

It's important that the next generation knows just what your generation
went through - and what they did for us.

--
Andy Breen ~ Interplanetary Scintillation Research Group
http://users.aber.ac.uk/azb/
"Time has stopped, says the Black Lion clock
and eternity has begun" (Dylan Thomas)

Subject: If yiu didn't fight in WW II.....
From: (ANDREW ROBERT BREEN)
Date: 2/27/04 7:05 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:

In article ,
ArtKramr wrote:
Subject: If yiu didn't fight in WW II.....
From: (ANDREW ROBERT BREEN)
Date: 2/27/04 1:53 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:

In article ,
ArtKramr wrote:
If you didn't fight in WW II do you feel as though your had missed
something?
Do you feel that given your druthers you'd rather have been there than
not?
Any
regrets at having missed it? Anyone?
That said, my parents' generation were faced with either doing something
about a truely horrible threat (though without knowing - then - quite
how horrible it was) or having to live under it. If I'd been faced with
the same situation I can only hope I might have done as well. I'm not
sure I would, but then maybe neither were they. I'm very glad to have been
spared that.

Very thoughtful post Andy. Many I have heard from over the last 60 years
expressed pretty much what you did. It often just starts with they wished
they
had been there with us. It was a war worth fighting and their lives would
have

Thanks for the feedbacck, Art. It's something I've been thinking about
more than usual recently - my father having been very seriously ill
over the last week (he's almost completely recovered now - like many
of his generation he's a tough guy, in spite of having had a tough time).

Hope you won't mind me making a suggestion - I've been following the
accounts you've been putting up on your web-space (fascinating stuff):
Have you considered offering them to one of the archives for long-term
preservation (not that I'm not hoping you'll be with us for many years to
come!). The 2nd World War Experience Centre seems to be a rather good one,
and they are on the look-out for a larger US presence there.

http://www.war-experience.org/

I had some dealings with them when they put some stuff of my father's
up on the site - editing it into shape and so on - and they seemed
very good.

It's important that the next generation knows just what your generation
went through - and what they did for us.

--
Andy Breen ~ Interplanetary Scintillation Research Group
http://users.aber.ac.uk/azb/
"Time has stopped, says the Black Lion clock
and eternity has begun" (Dylan Thomas)


I have been thinking about that but I am not quite finished with it yet. More
to come. But any archive can simply download it can't they? BTW, Regards to
Mrs. Prothero. (:-))


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

In article ,
ArtKramr wrote:
Subject: If yiu didn't fight in WW II.....
From: (ANDREW ROBERT BREEN)
Hope you won't mind me making a suggestion - I've been following the
accounts you've been putting up on your web-space (fascinating stuff):
Have you considered offering them to one of the archives for long-term
preservation (not that I'm not hoping you'll be with us for many years to

I have been thinking about that but I am not quite finished with it yet. More
to come. But any archive can simply download it can't they? BTW, Regards to

I think this lot only do it by permission - might be worth dropping them
an e-mail when you're satisfied with it though. Just a suggestion.

Mrs. Prothero. (:-))

--
Andy Breen ~ Interplanetary Scintillation Research Group
http://users.aber.ac.uk/azb/
"Time has stopped, says the Black Lion clock
and eternity has begun" (Dylan Thomas)

"ANDREW ROBERT BREEN" wrote in message
...

snip


It's important that the next generation knows just what your generation
went through - and what they did for us.

And you think the "historical" input of a clown who cannot acknowledge that
the entire national Guard was mobilized and a goodly chunk of them already
were in the fight when he graduated from high school, and goes on to lable
those same personnel as "shirkers", has any real value? A guy who makes the
astonishing claim (repeatedly) that his outfit *never* missed its designated
target, despite the clear evidence that such results would have been
impossible during that time period? One who disparages the efforts of those
in his generation who served honorably and went where they were told, and
did what they were instructed to do, as being somehow of less value than his
own efforts? Sorry, but all of that adds up to a rather biased and
untrustworthy source IMO.

Brooks


--
Andy Breen ~

On Fri, 27 Feb 2004 10:19:56 -0500, "Kevin Brooks"
wrote:

And you think the "historical" input of a clown who cannot acknowledge that
the entire national Guard was mobilized and a goodly chunk of them already
were in the fight when he graduated from high school, and goes on to lable
those same personnel as "shirkers", has any real value? A guy who makes the
astonishing claim (repeatedly) that his outfit *never* missed its designated
target, despite the clear evidence that such results would have been
impossible during that time period? One who disparages the efforts of those
in his generation who served honorably and went where they were told, and
did what they were instructed to do, as being somehow of less value than his
own efforts? Sorry, but all of that adds up to a rather biased and
untrustworthy source IMO.

I don't disagree with all of your criticisms - he seems happy enough
to denigrate others and seems to lack the intellectual honesty to
apply the rather intolerant historical standards he applies to others
to himself, but on the other hand, warts and all, his views of his own
experience are important historical information, and should be
preserved.

His personal contribution to WW2 exists independently of all the
ephemeral usenet bitching, even when he is a primary instigator of the
same bitching.

Gavin Bailey

ANDREW ROBERT BREEN wrote:

In article ,
ArtKramr wrote:
If you didn't fight in WW II do you feel as though your had missed something?
Do you feel that given your druthers you'd rather have been there than not? Any
regrets at having missed it? Anyone?

Having heard the descriptions of that war from my father (coast defence
during summer 1940, including Cromwell,

What sort of coast defence organization was your father in, Andy?
--
Andrew Chaplin
SIT MIHI GLADIUS SICUT SANCTO MARTINO
(If you're going to e-mail me, you'll have to get "yourfinger." out.)

In article ,
Andrew Chaplin wrote:
ANDREW ROBERT BREEN wrote:

Having heard the descriptions of that war from my father (coast defence
during summer 1940, including Cromwell,

What sort of coast defence organization was your father in, Andy?

(Drifting OT for here, maybe - we may need to go to smn)
Informal might be the word - he was doing the telegrapher's course
at Skegness (AKA HMS ROYAL ARTHUR, AKA the Butlins' camp) but the
course doubled as coast defence up to Ingoldmells point. When he
first got there they had Martini-Henries. By the time Cromwell
was called they had the long Lee-Enfield (but SMLE ammunition)
and a Maxim gun that with care would fire 10 rounds before jamming.
They were led by the senior PO in charge of drill for the course,
who had been at the Dardenelles. They would have fought if the landings
had happened.
A few years ago a friend and I went to Ingoldmells on the anniverary
of Cromwell and drank toasts to those who had been there that day and
survived the war - and poured libations to those who didn't. Time, maybe,
we did it again.


--
Andy Breen ~ Interplanetary Scintillation Research Group
http://users.aber.ac.uk/azb/
"Time has stopped, says the Black Lion clock
and eternity has begun" (Dylan Thomas)