SGT. GREIGO'S FLAK JACKET

Subject: Stormin Norman, was SGT. GREIGO'S FLAK JACKET
From: nt (Krztalizer)
Date: 3/3/04 12:34 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:

I've thought about this since Art posted it, and guys have been popping him
for
not correcting Griego's behavior. Flying is full of superstitious people and
we had our share - some folks always wore the same gross/filthy/threadbare
flightdeck jerseys when they flew, others tied their boots a particular way
or
refused to ever wear new equipment on a flight, etc. My inflight
indescretion
was to unstrap 90% of the time - our radar station seat was positioned in a
way
that even a mild impact would cleave off my legs because even at full
retract,
I was too tall to get out from under the rack. Periodically, pilots would
see
me digging around in back and ask or demand that I put on at least the
hurricane strap - while still "illegal", it would at least keep a large
portion
of my body within the confines of a wreck, were it to happen. I would
sullenly
strap in and wait for the GUF to turn back around and then :::clunk::: I'd
drop
it back onto the floor. Most pilots I flew with would "order" me to strap
in,
but understood I had my own reasons for not doing so; we got into one short
argument (that I won, btw) and other than that, they felt they were doing
their
jobs by telling me to do it, whether I did or not. I never had a problem
with
the pilots in this regard, primarily because I obeyed the other 99.99% of
their
orders/suggestions - and I did a great job.

I didn't come up with that 'unstrap' idea on my own - we had a crusty old AW1
NATOPS Evaluator in my shop when I first arrived in H-2s and he wore a nasty
scar across his forehead - from not wearing his straps and impacting the
radar
with a fair amount of force. As he was one of my initial instructors, I
listened to every point he wanted to make about my new ride - the H-2 had
such
a horrible reputation among crews (and the Navy in general), that any extra
bit
of help was something I thought could bale me out when the little red
"Extremis" light came on. I saw photos of his accident and if he had been
strapped in upon impact, that dude would be dead, no question. So, I got to
thinking about how much I liked running and swimming on my only pair of legs
and I decided I would follow every other order, but not -that- one.

When the drivers occasionally got stupid (115 knots at 20' above the sea), I
made it a point to climb up and gingerly sit on the radio panel between the
pilots - that got LCDR F____ into a tizzyfit, but I stood my ground and said
something to the effect, "If you're going to kill me doing something this
dangerous, I at least want to see it coming." After a few zingers back and
forth, he slowly brought us up out of the ocean spray and slowed down to a
more
sane speed - at which point I went back and turned the radar back on: its not
like I could see anything on the scope when the nose was 45-degrees down and
we
were screaming along within the wave troughs. Radar horizon was about as far
as the blade tips in that flight attitude anyway!

I think when your job is inherently dangerous, beyond the 'normal danger' of
flight, some decisions are more personal and the pilots/Ohs were human enough
to understand, if not agree. I think that is the situation for the officers
and the tailgunner on "Willie The Wolf".

v/r
Gordon
====(A+C====
USN SAR

Donate your memories - write a note on the back and send your old photos to a
reputable museum, don't take them with you when you're gone.


Thank you for that touching story. I guess these habits, superstions and
personal prefferences mean a lot more to those who have flown in harms way than
to those who haven't.



Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

"Kevin Brooks" wrote:

What he *did* do, at least
sometime during his tour, was position his trusty S&W .38 special revolver
(which he prefered to the .45, for reasons soon to be obvious) in its
holster between his legs, both to keep it from hindering his operation of
the cyclic and to give some (at least psychological) protection for his most
favorite personal area...


Did he mention the conundrum of whether to pull the cartridges
so as to remove the stress of having all those potential little
bombs cosied up to 'Big Jim and the twins' with the attendant
inconvenience of not having them in place if needed later ---
vice the stress caused by picturing them so near those unmangled
personal items for now so that they'll be available later if
needed?
--

-Gord.

(ArtKramr) wrote:

Thank you for that touching story. I guess these habits, superstions and
personal prefferences mean a lot more to those who have flown in harms way than
to those who haven't.

Arthur Kramer

Speaking of harm Art, do you still not see?...I'm damned sure
that nobody doubts that Gordon's story happened just as he
related it, that's because everyone has seen him retract an error
that he's made. Sometimes even before it's pointed out to him.

He has 100% credibility. You, OTH, do not, and it's ONLY your
fault. You WILL NOT admit an error. Ever. It's quite sad really.

It puts you in the same boat as Marron and Henriques and likely
many others.
--

-Gord.

Subject: Stormin Norman, was SGT. GREIGO'S FLAK JACKET
From: "Gord Beaman" )
Date: 3/3/04 1:25 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:

(ArtKramr) wrote:

Thank you for that touching story. I guess these habits, superstions and
personal prefferences mean a lot more to those who have flown in harms way
than
to those who haven't.

Arthur Kramer

Speaking of harm Art, do you still not see?...I'm damned sure
that nobody doubts that Gordon's story happened just as he
related it, that's because everyone has seen him retract an error
that he's made. Sometimes even before it's pointed out to him.

He has 100% credibility. You, OTH, do not, and it's ONLY your
fault. You WILL NOT admit an error. Ever. It's quite sad really.

It puts you in the same boat as Marron and Henriques and likely
many others.
--

-Gord.

I think you are being conned. When I was 17 yearts pld and onm Hoihg Svhool I
vopunteerd for the ArmyAir Corp. I poassed the qualifyign tets but was too
oyung to be called. I oculdbt be va;;ed intil I was 18. What I turned 18, I was
called and I reported. Those who say the fact that I was called proves that I
didntt volunteer but was drafted And it is not I who lie, it is they who lie.
Too bad you have been taken in by these obvious lies by those who have no
experience in the matter. Believe what you like. It is of no importance to me
one way or the other..


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

"Gord Beaman" ) wrote:

It puts you in the same boat as Marron and Henriques and likely
many others.

I realize this is stinkbait, but I'm happy to admit when I'm
wrong -- but I do gotta' be wrong first.

(ArtKramr) wrote:

Subject: Stormin Norman, was SGT. GREIGO'S FLAK JACKET
From: "Gord Beaman" )
Date: 3/3/04 1:25 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:

(ArtKramr) wrote:

Thank you for that touching story. I guess these habits, superstions and
personal prefferences mean a lot more to those who have flown in harms way
than
to those who haven't.

Arthur Kramer

Speaking of harm Art, do you still not see?...I'm damned sure
that nobody doubts that Gordon's story happened just as he
related it, that's because everyone has seen him retract an error
that he's made. Sometimes even before it's pointed out to him.

He has 100% credibility. You, OTH, do not, and it's ONLY your
fault. You WILL NOT admit an error. Ever. It's quite sad really.

It puts you in the same boat as Marron and Henriques and likely
many others.
--

-Gord.

I think you are being conned. When I was 17 yearts pld and onm Hoihg Svhool I
vopunteerd for the ArmyAir Corp. I poassed the qualifyign tets but was too
oyung to be called. I oculdbt be va;;ed intil I was 18. What I turned 18, I was
called and I reported. Those who say the fact that I was called proves that I
didntt volunteer but was drafted And it is not I who lie, it is they who lie.
Too bad you have been taken in by these obvious lies by those who have no
experience in the matter. Believe what you like. It is of no importance to me
one way or the other..


Arthur Kramer

Well, whatever...It wasn't anyone other than you who conned me
(if that's the case). You were asked time and time again to
explain the apparent discrepancy and you wouldn't. Why should we
believe other than that it was true??...

That was a very touching story that you told about Bob. It
thoroughly ****es me off when I think that you may well have made
it up. You need to be ashamed of your actions in letting people
doubt your word like this. Get on the stick and clean up your act
or else stop publishing supposedly true stories about real
people.

I hope his niece doesn't hear that you're somewhat wanting in the
credibility department. She won't hear it from me and you can
take that to the bank.

See how "Your reputation goes before you"?
--

-Gord.

Subject: SGT. GREIGO'S FLAK JACKET
From: "Gord Beaman" )
Date: 3/3/04 8:13 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:

"Ragnar" wrote:


I don't have to fly missions in WW2 to know that deliberately and repeatedly
disobeying a direct order reflects badly on any officer who condones the
activity. That was as true in the AAC then as it is now in the USAF.

So why wasn't the man disciplined after deliberately and repeatedly defying
a direct order?


Haven't figured this out by now?...hell, it never happened, it's
a 'story' (sound familiar?). Art just thought it'd make a cute
little story that a few might believe that's all.
--

-Gord.

Don't read what I write.


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

Subject: SGT. GREIGO'S FLAK JACKET
From: "Gord Beaman" )
Date: 3/3/04 9:32 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:

(OXMORON1) wrote:

Gord wrote:
Haven't figured this out by now?...hell, it never happened, it's
a 'story' (sound familiar?). Art just thought it'd make a cute
little story that a few might believe that's all.

Are you telling us that Art is telling "There I was" stories? "Flat on my
back
at 10,000 feet while trying to dive bomb the..."?

Rick

Well, let's put it this way, as Judge Judy says "You lie to me
once and I'll doubt every word you say after that".

Both Brooks and George Z caught Art lying. No doubt about it.

What's your take on that?. I know what mine is.
--

-Gord.

Why are you still reading everything I write?


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

Subject: Stormin Norman, was SGT. GREIGO'S FLAK JACKET
From: "Gord Beaman" )
Date: 3/3/04 1:25 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:

(ArtKramr) wrote:

Thank you for that touching story. I guess these habits, superstions and
personal prefferences mean a lot more to those who have flown in harms way
than
to those who haven't.

Arthur Kramer

Speaking of harm Art, do you still not see?...I'm damned sure
that nobody doubts that Gordon's story happened just as he
related it, that's because everyone has seen him retract an error
that he's made. Sometimes even before it's pointed out to him.

He has 100% credibility. You, OTH, do not, and it's ONLY your
fault. You WILL NOT admit an error. Ever. It's quite sad really.

It puts you in the same boat as Marron and Henriques and likely
many others.
--

-Gord.


Still reading every word huh?


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

Subject: Stormin Norman, was SGT. GREIGO'S FLAK JACKET
From: "Gord Beaman" )
Date: 3/3/04 2:10 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:

(ArtKramr) wrote:

Subject: Stormin Norman, was SGT. GREIGO'S FLAK JACKET
From: "Gord Beaman" )
Date: 3/3/04 1:25 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:

(ArtKramr) wrote:

Thank you for that touching story. I guess these habits, superstions and
personal prefferences mean a lot more to those who have flown in harms way
than
to those who haven't.

Arthur Kramer

Speaking of harm Art, do you still not see?...I'm damned sure
that nobody doubts that Gordon's story happened just as he
related it, that's because everyone has seen him retract an error
that he's made. Sometimes even before it's pointed out to him.

He has 100% credibility. You, OTH, do not, and it's ONLY your
fault. You WILL NOT admit an error. Ever. It's quite sad really.

It puts you in the same boat as Marron and Henriques and likely
many others.
--

-Gord.

I think you are being conned. When I was 17 yearts pld and onm Hoihg Svhool
I
vopunteerd for the ArmyAir Corp. I poassed the qualifyign tets but was too
oyung to be called. I oculdbt be va;;ed intil I was 18. What I turned 18, I
was
called and I reported. Those who say the fact that I was called proves that
I
didntt volunteer but was drafted And it is not I who lie, it is they who
lie.
Too bad you have been taken in by these obvious lies by those who have no
experience in the matter. Believe what you like. It is of no importance to
me
one way or the other..


Arthur Kramer

Well, whatever...It wasn't anyone other than you who conned me
(if that's the case). You were asked time and time again to
explain the apparent discrepancy and you wouldn't. Why should we
believe other than that it was true??...

That was a very touching story that you told about Bob. It
thoroughly ****es me off when I think that you may well have made
it up. You need to be ashamed of your actions in letting people
doubt your word like this. Get on the stick and clean up your act
or else stop publishing supposedly true stories about real
people.

I hope his niece doesn't hear that you're somewhat wanting in the
credibility department. She won't hear it from me and you can
take that to the bank.

See how "Your reputation goes before you"?
--

-Gord.


Can't let a single post of mine go unread can you?


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer