Busy airports and small GA

On Jul 20, 5:01*pm, Mxsmanic wrote:
Mike writes:
You'll typically have more problems with the airport itself rather than from
ATC. *Some large airports charge hefty landing and ramp fees, so you may
wind up with a $150 or so charge you hadn't expected. *This is how they
discourage the little guys from landing.

How do they organize the payment? *Are they waiting for you on the ramp, or do
you have to go to an office or something to pay up? *Do you pay on arrival or
before you leave again? *How do you find out the charges in advance? *(I don't
recall seeing them in the directory or even on Airnav.)

A lot of times they only charge you if you use the FBO, which is
everytime unless you're just doing a touch and go. Sometimes they
waive the fee if you buy a ton of gas (like literally a ton),
sometimes they only charge a fee if the aircraft is certified to weigh
anymore than a certain amount. It all really depends. In my
experience, the fee is very informal, and if you REALLY wanted to get
out of paying, you could probably just take off and I don't think much
would happen. Sometimes my company flies to large airports which have
landing fees, but we only ever go to the cargo apron and drop off, so
we never visit a FBO, and therefore never pay anything. I know for a
fact we flew into Toronto a few months ago, dropped off at some cargo
hangar, filed our flight plan back to KYIP, then took right back off.
Later I looked it up, and there is indeed a landing fee there that we
most certainly did not pay. All though they may have called one of our
dispatchers to collect the fee...

On Jul 22, 9:12*am, buttman wrote:
I know for a
fact we flew into Toronto a few months ago, dropped off at some cargo
hangar, filed our flight plan back to KYIP, then took right back off.
Later I looked it up, and there is indeed a landing fee there that we
most certainly did not pay. All though they may have called one of our
dispatchers to collect the fee...

Don't declare victory just yet. I fly to Toronto a few times/year to
visit family. They will send you an ATC user fee bill in the
mail....based on aircraft weight. They will track you by your tail
number and registration info.

--Jeff

buttman wrote in
:

On Jul 20, 5:01*pm, Mxsmanic wrote:
Mike writes:
You'll typically have more problems with the airport itself rather
than
from
ATC. *Some large airports charge hefty landing and ramp fees, so
you
may
wind up with a $150 or so charge you hadn't expected. *This is how
th
ey
discourage the little guys from landing.

How do they organize the payment? *Are they waiting for you on the
ramp
, or do
you have to go to an office or something to pay up? *Do you pay on
arri
val or
before you leave again? *How do you find out the charges in advance?
*(I don't
recall seeing them in the directory or even on Airnav.)

A lot of times they only charge you if you use the FBO, which is
everytime unless you're just doing a touch and go. Sometimes they
waive the fee if you buy a ton of gas (like literally a ton),
sometimes they only charge a fee if the aircraft is certified to weigh
anymore than a certain amount. It all really depends. In my
experience, the fee is very informal, and if you REALLY wanted to get
out of paying, you could probably just take off and I don't think much
would happen. Sometimes my company flies to large airports which have
landing fees, but we only ever go to the cargo apron and drop off, so
we never visit a FBO, and therefore never pay anything. I know for a
fact we flew into Toronto a few months ago, dropped off at some cargo
hangar, filed our flight plan back to KYIP, then took right back off.
Later I looked it up, and there is indeed a landing fee there that we
most certainly did not pay. All though they may have called one of our
dispatchers to collect the fee...

Snort!

Bertie

buttman writes:

A lot of times they only charge you if you use the FBO, which is
everytime unless you're just doing a touch and go. Sometimes they
waive the fee if you buy a ton of gas (like literally a ton),
sometimes they only charge a fee if the aircraft is certified to weigh
anymore than a certain amount. It all really depends. In my
experience, the fee is very informal, and if you REALLY wanted to get
out of paying, you could probably just take off and I don't think much
would happen. Sometimes my company flies to large airports which have
landing fees, but we only ever go to the cargo apron and drop off, so
we never visit a FBO, and therefore never pay anything. I know for a
fact we flew into Toronto a few months ago, dropped off at some cargo
hangar, filed our flight plan back to KYIP, then took right back off.
Later I looked it up, and there is indeed a landing fee there that we
most certainly did not pay. All though they may have called one of our
dispatchers to collect the fee...

I thought a FBO was a private enterprise that operated on the premises of the
airport, not part of the airport mangement itself. What exactly is the
relationship of the FBO to the airport? Can't there be multiple FBOs at an
airport?

On Tue, 22 Jul 2008 06:12:32 -0700 (PDT), buttman
wrote:

we never visit a FBO, and therefore never pay anything. I know for a
fact we flew into Toronto a few months ago, dropped off at some cargo
hangar, filed our flight plan back to KYIP, then took right back off.
Later I looked it up, and there is indeed a landing fee there that we
most certainly did not pay. All though they may have called one of our
dispatchers to collect the fee...

Depends on the airport. Places that don't collect the fee via the FBO
usually just mail a bill to the registered owner.

Mxsmanic wrote in
:

What is the largest/busiest airport you've flown into or out of in a
small GA aircraft as a private pilot, and was it IFR or VFR? What was
the attitude of the ATC in the area towards pilots like yourself
moving about in an area normally dominated by airliners and commercial
flights?


Why? You'll never fly. Ever.


Bertie

Mxsmanic wrote:
What is the largest/busiest airport you've flown into or out of in a small GA
aircraft as a private pilot, and was it IFR or VFR? What was the attitude of
the ATC in the area towards pilots like yourself moving about in an area
normally dominated by airliners and commercial flights?

DFW, nice as they could be, VFR.

On Jul 21, 8:40*am, Gig 601Xl Builder
wrote:
Mxsmanic wrote:
What is the largest/busiest airport you've flown into or out of in a small GA
aircraft as a private pilot, and was it IFR or VFR? *What was the attitude of
the ATC in the area towards pilots like yourself moving about in an area
normally dominated by airliners and commercial flights?

DFW, nice as they could be, VFR.

When I was at Le Tourneau University we had to do a cross country into
DFW. I don't remember if it was in an Aztec or a Warrior but they
vectored me all over the metroplex before letting me in. It took
almost an hour to get on the ground after crossing over Dallas in
order to go pay the $50-$60 (don't remember exactly how much, long
time ago) landing fee. ATC & ground seemed a little more abrupt with
me but that could've just been my own nerves going into DFW & thinking
they were hating me for it.
The most challenging part of this flight was getting to the GA area
after landing. Even with detailed progressive taxiing and a detailed
ground map on my lap it took a lot of concentration and time to get to
parking, took nearly 30 min I believe with lots of holding short.

Ricky

I flew a C-150 once into Lambert (St. Louis International). VFR, the
ink on my Private barely dry, no trouble with ATC. Ground control
asked me what was my destination on the airport and I said, "As close
as possible to TWA departure" (I was dropping off a friend). They
directed me, my friend got out, and I flew back out again. No hassle,
and no fees. 'Course that was 30 years ago...

-Dana

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On Jul 20, 12:28*pm, Mxsmanic wrote:
What is the largest/busiest airport you've flown into or out of in a small GA
aircraft as a private pilot, and was it IFR or VFR? *What was the attitude of
the ATC in the area towards pilots like yourself moving about in an area
normally dominated by airliners and commercial flights?

Dulles, VFR in a Warrior.

They vectored me all over the place to keep me out of the way of the
airliners and IFR traffic (it was CAVU day), I was definitely their
lowest priority and for about 1/2 hour I got a tour of the ADIZ while
they kept pushing me out of the way. Then let me land on 19L (with a
13 mile final during a break in airliner traffic and asked if I
could make the first high-speed turnoff (ummm, yes).

Their attitude was fine, but they clearly were rusty on dealing with
VFR traffic

Heck they were rusty on dealing with spam can traffic, period. When
we departed, clearance delivery told us to maintain 4000 or lower.
When we contacted departure they were annoyed at that clearance and
told us to stay at 2000 or below. But then we were cleared to 4000
before we'd even climbed past 1500. Clearly they were used to dealing
with much faster climbing planes than Warriors near gross on a hot
day.

It was a flying club trip and four Warriors went. I was VFR, the
others were IFR. I took off for Dulles first, and was the last one to
land.