Airplanes and Brakes?

"Dudley Henriques" wrote in message
...
On Sep 16, 8:13 am, "Ol Shy & Bashful" wrote:
On Sep 15, 4:12 pm, tjd wrote:
That sounds much like the situation here with a downslope of 40' in
5000 and a nasty ravine at the end. I teach my students to check
brakes as they reach the aiming blocks and if the pressure is gone or
going away to make a decision well before they end up going off the
end and saying "Oh Sh*&" Sorry Dudley, I couldn't resistGG

No problem. I consider the testing of an airplane's brakes after
touchdown as a whole issue unto itself. In discussing the use of
brakes with a student, I'd separate this little "gotcha" from any
discussion centered on whether or not to use brakes on landing.
Other than what should be this automatic "check" that brakes are
available, I would stress that brakes only be used when necessary and
as previously stated. :-))

Whereas that should be sufficient to keep the brakes free from rust, and has
obvious additional safety benefits, I plan to "make it mine" when I resume
flying.

Peter

On Sep 16, 8:22*pm, "Peter Dohm" wrote:
"Dudley Henriques" wrote in message

...

On Sep 16, 8:13 am, "Ol Shy & Bashful" wrote:
On Sep 15, 4:12 pm, tjd wrote:
That sounds much like the situation here with a downslope of 40' in
5000 and a nasty ravine at the end. I teach my students to check
brakes as they reach the aiming blocks and if the pressure is gone or
going away to make a decision well before they end up going off the
end and saying "Oh Sh*&" Sorry Dudley, I couldn't resistGG

No problem. I consider the testing of an airplane's brakes after
touchdown as a whole issue unto itself. In discussing the use of
brakes with a student, I'd separate this little "gotcha" from any
discussion centered on whether or not to use brakes on landing.
Other than what should be this automatic "check" that brakes are
available, I would stress that brakes only be used when necessary and
as previously stated. :-))

Whereas that should be sufficient to keep the brakes free from rust, and has
obvious additional safety benefits, I plan to "make it mine" when I resume
flying.

Peter

It's a good practice Pete. Just a touch is all that's required. The
trick is that this is usually done during the initial (faster) part of
the roll out after touchdown so you want to be extra careful not to
"punch" the nosewheel down hard on the strut or in the case of a
tailwheel airplane, not to push the nose down and catch a prop tip.
This is especially an issue for tail wheels on short grass uneven
strips where there might be a tendency to "test the brakes" just a bit
too aggressively :-))

Ol Shy & Bashful wrote:
How about you? If you had to pay for the brakes, tires, and
maintenance, would YOU beat up the airplane?

Now that I have to pay for my own brakes, I hardly ever use them. Back in
my Cessna days, I'd occasionally have to use them to tighten a turn during
taxi (thanks to Cessna's bungee arrangement). With the Piper's direct
linkage, I almost never use them for taxi. On landing, traffic permitting,
I just let the plane roll out and slow down on its own. The only exception
to that would be when landing at short backcountry strips. Most don't afford
the luxury of a long roll out.

John Galban=====N4BQ (PA28-180)

--
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On Sep 15, 4:35*pm, "JGalban via AviationKB.com" u32749@uwe wrote:
Ol Shy & Bashful wrote:

How about you? If you had to pay for the brakes, tires, and
maintenance, would YOU beat up the airplane?

* Now that I have to pay for my own brakes, I hardly ever use them. *Back in
my Cessna days, I'd occasionally have to use them to tighten a turn during
taxi (thanks to Cessna's bungee arrangement). *With the Piper's direct
linkage, I almost never use them for taxi. * On landing, traffic permitting,
I just let the plane roll out and slow down on its own. *The only exception
to that would be when landing at short backcountry strips. *Most don't afford
the luxury of a long roll out.

John Galban=====N4BQ (PA28-180)

--
Message posted via AviationKB.comhttp://www.aviationkb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/aviation/200809/1

John
Certainly we use heaving braking from time to time and especially in
the back country strips but even then the gravel doesn't help much? I
think I learned a lot about braking while flying off short strips in
the Amazon as well as in the Idaho Primitive back before it got named
the Frank Church wilderness. Come to think of it, lots of time
operating off 1200' dirt strips while crop dusting and didn't use
brakes that much.
Best Regards
Ol S&B

On Sep 15, 1:44*pm, "Ol Shy & Bashful" wrote:
I'm deligthted to see I'm managing to get some arguments and
discussion going. And if you notice, No Profanity?
I challenge my students to learn to taxi without brakes. and I come
down hard if they beat up the airplane with unecessary braking instead
of staying ahead of the airplane. (sometimes even with profanity! Can
you imagine that?)
How about you? If you had to pay for the brakes, tires, and
maintenance, would YOU beat up the airplane?
Ol S&B

Lycoming recommends a relatively high idle speed (1000rpm) to keep
the plugs hot enough to avoid plug fouling if using leaded fuel, and
TCM has a similar suggestion. However, at this idle speed I do need
to use brakes occasionally, particularly when taxiing downwind.

"Ol Shy & Bashful" wrote in message
...
I'm deligthted to see I'm managing to get some arguments and
discussion going. And if you notice, No Profanity?
I challenge my students to learn to taxi without brakes. and I come
down hard if they beat up the airplane with unecessary braking instead
of staying ahead of the airplane. (sometimes even with profanity! Can
you imagine that?)
How about you? If you had to pay for the brakes, tires, and
maintenance, would YOU beat up the airplane?
Ol S&B

Correct tire inflation and maintenance of the nose strut are also part of
the equation. I'm pretty sure that those things are done propertly at your
school; but I doubt they are universal even today.

I hereby confess to having once inflated the main tires on a Cessna 152 to
the recommended nose wheel pressure--and found out why the recommended
pressure was so low!

Peter

"Ol Shy & Bashful" wrote in news:87cfb870-6f6d-4d85-
:

I'm deligthted to see I'm managing to get some arguments and
discussion going. And if you notice, No Profanity?

****in A!

I challenge my students to learn to taxi without brakes. and I come
down hard if they beat up the airplane with unecessary braking instead
of staying ahead of the airplane. (sometimes even with profanity! Can
you imagine that?)
How about you? If you had to pay for the brakes, tires, and
maintenance, would YOU beat up the airplane?


Even if I don't have to.



Bertie

Ol Shy & Bashful wrote:
I'm deligthted to see I'm managing to get some arguments and
discussion going. And if you notice, No Profanity?
I challenge my students to learn to taxi without brakes. and I come
down hard if they beat up the airplane with unecessary braking instead
of staying ahead of the airplane. (sometimes even with profanity! Can
you imagine that?)
How about you? If you had to pay for the brakes, tires, and
maintenance, would YOU beat up the airplane?
Ol S&B
Try this on for size.....

I had a 1960 Mooney M20A. The first two years of ownership, during
annual it needed brake relines. After this I changed my operating
practices. Ever see a car with rusty brake discs? I and the other 4
owners started using the brakes on EVERY landing and for the next three
years did not need any brake parts replaced.

Think of it this way. You never use the brakes and they rust (yes chrome
included). Then when you do use them its like rubbing sandpaper against
the pads and discs. By using them regularly, the rust isn't allowed to
form by the discs and pads aew being cleaned each use. No rust = longer
life. Thats my experience with the Mooney.

Rocky

On Sep 15, 12:44*pm, "Ol Shy & Bashful" wrote:
I'm deligthted to see I'm managing to get some arguments and
discussion going. And if you notice, No Profanity?
I challenge my students to learn to taxi without brakes. and I come
down hard if they beat up the airplane with unecessary braking instead
of staying ahead of the airplane. (sometimes even with profanity! Can
you imagine that?)
How about you? If you had to pay for the brakes, tires, and
maintenance, would YOU beat up the airplane?
Ol S&B

A lot of students and/or renters aren't thinking about brake
burnout. They've grown up driving cars that had pretty good brakes, so
they treat the airplane's brakes the same. They often don't know what
the "L" in "PRNDL" is for, or the "3-2-1" in "PRND321." They never use
those settings when going down hills, or if they have a standard, they
use the brakes on it, too, instead of gearing down. So brakes become
the fix for most instances of speed control.
So they taxi around with too much power and use the brakes to fix
that. Or land long and fast and use the brakes to fix that, too,
except that the wings are still lifting and there's little weight and
traction on the tires, so the tires suffer as well as the brakes. And
sooner or later the surface conditions are less than good and the
brakes can't fix the problem anymore and some damage ensues.
When I was instructing I was always asking the student to pull
that throttle back, please, and stop riding the brakes. Brakes that
are held on during taxi get very hot and their metallic compounds
start to weld to the disc and raise little burrs that cut the
daylights out of the pads. Those $160 discs wear out much faster, even
aside from the burrs. Tires that have to resist the thrust constantly
scrub a little and wear out quickly. And with the thrust line at the
prop hub and the drag at the surface, a rotational couple is created
that pulls the nose down so that the propeller, which is turning too
fast and moving much more air than necessary, sucks up all the little
rocks and other hard bits that eat the propeller before its time. Such
sloppy piloting costs a lot, see, and it only makes the aircraft owner
raise his rates to cover the maintenance expenses. A private owner
that's had to pay for this sort of thing becomes acutely aware of his
bad habits.

Dan

On 2008-09-15 11:44:12 -0700, "Ol Shy & Bashful" said:

I'm deligthted to see I'm managing to get some arguments and
discussion going. And if you notice, No Profanity?
I challenge my students to learn to taxi without brakes. and I come
down hard if they beat up the airplane with unecessary braking instead
of staying ahead of the airplane. (sometimes even with profanity! Can
you imagine that?)
How about you? If you had to pay for the brakes, tires, and
maintenance, would YOU beat up the airplane?
Ol S&B

Naw. In fact, I challenge my students not to use brakes even when they
are flying! :-)

(Sorry, OSB. Couldn't help it.)
--
Waddling Eagle
World Famous Flight Instructor